Bluefish Caves

The Western Hemisphere. General term for the Americas following their discovery by Europeans, thus setting them in contradistinction to the Old World of Africa, Europe, and Asia.

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Beagle
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Bluefish Caves

Post by Beagle »

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/n ... 0010ad4acf
This July, Jacques Cinq-Mars, a renowned archeologist living in Longueuil, is heading to Beringia - a vast territory that once spanned the Yukon, Alaska and Siberia - in hopes of resolving a controversy he unleashed nearly 20 years ago when he chanced upon a curious-looking cave in the Yukon's Keele Mountain Range, perched on a ridge high above the Bluefish River.

Here, at a site known as the Bluefish Caves, Cinq-Mars's team discovered something that would turn archeology on its ear and has fuelled debate ever since - a chipped mammoth bone that appeared to have been fashioned into a small harpoon point. Radiocarbon dating showed the bone to be 28,000 years old.
If he is right, his finds at the Bluefish Caves and even older mammoth bone flakes found by another Canadian team at nearby Beringian sites mean people were already trundling around in the Americas long before the Ice Age. (Radiocarbon dating puts the age of the mammoth bone flakes found by the Archeological Survey of Canada team at 40,000 years old.) Nearly 20 years after the initial mammoth bone find was publicized in the early 1990s, however, much of the archeological establishment remains skeptical about Cinq-Mars's discoveries in Beringia. His finds clash with a long-held view known as the "Clovis First" theory, which is based on 13,000-year-old spear points found near Clovis, New Mexico, in the 1930s.
From our newsroom today, a report on the Bluefish Caves and the fact that Jacques Cinq-Mars is going back to follow up on his earlier discoveries. JCM posts on some other forums and I'm always eager to read his opinions. Although involved in discussion, he has not yet rendered an opinion on "The Mythical Moderns".

This article is 4 pages - very interesting. 8)
kbs2244
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Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:47 pm

Post by kbs2244 »

I am not on either side of this, but...
Remember or Radio Carbon Dating discussions?
As a clincher, I would like to see some other kind of technology used by either side.
Rokcet Scientist

Post by Rokcet Scientist »

How are 40,000 BP or 28,000 BP "long before the Ice Age" when the "Würm", the last ice age, is generally defined as begun about 110,000 years ago and ended between 10,000 and 15,000 BP ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Würm_glaciation

So, really, 40,000 BP and 28,000 BP are slap bang in the middle of the last ice age. Not before it.
Beagle
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Location: Tennessee

Post by Beagle »

You're right RS. So, I think the person who wrote this article meant to say the last glacial maximum.

We've seen a lot of reporters/journalists butcher the facts. But if humans were in Beringia in 28,000 BC, nothing would have prevented them from traveling down into North America. So JCM can hopefully bury the Clovis First theory.

He might have done it sooner if the grant money hadn't been shut off.
Beagle
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Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:39 am
Location: Tennessee

Post by Beagle »

The renewed interest in the Bluefish caves is a direct result of the Monte Verde dates being accepted. With this renewed interest, JCM has been able to obtain funding.

Wiki adds: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluefish_Caves
The initial find of a mammoth bone spear point was made by archaeologist Jacques Cinq-Mars in 1978-79[1], but not radiocarbon dated and published until the early 1990s due to lack of funding. As the date of 28,000 y.b.p. obtained directly contradicts the Clovis-First theory which dominated New World archaeology until recent years, the research of Cinq-Mars was largely ignored by the archeological establishment, and he was unable to obtain funding for follow-up research until 2008[2].

Recently another team has discovered allegedly human-worked mammoth bone flakes in the Bluefish Caves area, radiocarbon dated to an even earlier period of 40,000 y.b.p.[3]
I'm sure we're all having warm thoughts about the Club.
Beagle
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Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:39 am
Location: Tennessee

Post by Beagle »

http://thothweb.com/article6579.html
In 2004, the Clovis theory suffered another indirect blow when scientists in Siberia - in what used to be the western edge of Beringia - found a 30,000-year-old human site with tools fashioned from mammoth and rhino tusks.

The discovery showed humans had adapted to the extreme cold of the Far North thousands of years earlier than previously thought. It has also rejuvenated interest in Beringia, Le Blanc said. "If people got to the Arctic, I don't see why they couldn't have penetrated farther east." Meanwhile, Cinq-Mars has been amassing evidence from European researchers that shows chipped mammoth bones were used there as spear points more than 200,000 years ago - more evidence that the bone chips in Beringia were a widespread ancient technology.

And in July, Cinq-Mars plans to return to the region that ignited the controversy 30 years ago with hopes of finding more clues. He has received funds from the Yukon's Gwitchin First Nation in order to explore several sites, including the Bluefish Caves.

"There are layers there that have yet to be looked at which are likely to be older (than the original Bluefish find)," he said.
Another article on this with a little more info.
Beagle
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Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:39 am
Location: Tennessee

Post by Beagle »

http://www.palanth.com/forum/upload_dow ... nti_01.pdf
On the significance of modified mammoth bones
from eastern Beringia
J. Cinq-Mars
Canadian Museum of Civilization, Hull (Québec) Canada
jacques.cinqmars@sympatico.ca
SUMMARY: Focusing on Late Pleistocene evidence obtained from the Old Crow Flats and the Bluefish
Caves (northern Yukon Territory) and relying on finds made elsewhere, in both Eurasia and North America,
this paper will examine, in a historical perspective, the nature, significance and implications of modified
mammoth bone assemblages from eastern Beringia.
A 3 page PDF by JCM about the modified mammoth bones.
kbs2244
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Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:47 pm

Post by kbs2244 »

From todays news page.
They walked East alright!
All the way to Greenland

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/ ... 052708.php

From Siberia the long way?
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