jchrist in the foothills

[john]

All -

Microsoft has abruptly changed their format,

So I haven't figured a way to give you a picture of the cup.

"A team of scientists led by renowned French marine archaeologist Franck Goddio recently announced that they have found a bowl, dating to between the late 2nd century B.C. and the early 1st century A.D., that is engraved with what they believe could be the world's first known reference to Christ.

If the word "Christ" refers to the Biblical Jesus Christ, as is speculated, then the discovery may provide evidence that Christianity and paganism at times intertwined in the ancient world.

The full engraving on the bowl reads, "DIA CHRSTOU O GOISTAIS," which has been interpreted by the excavation team to mean either, "by Christ the magician" or, "the magician by Christ."

Story continues below ↓
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"It could very well be a reference to Jesus Christ, in that he was once the primary exponent of white magic," Goddio, co-founder of the Oxford Center of Maritime Archaeology, said.

He and his colleagues found the object during an excavation of the underwater ruins of Alexandria's ancient great harbor. The Egyptian site also includes the now submerged island of Antirhodos, where Cleopatra's palace may have been located.

Both Goddio and Egyptologist David Fabre, a member of the European Institute of Submarine Archaeology, think a "magus" could have practiced fortune telling rituals using the bowl. The Book of Matthew refers to "wisemen," or Magi, believed to have been prevalent in the ancient world.

According to Fabre, the bowl is also very similar to one depicted in two early Egyptian earthenware statuettes that are thought to show a soothsaying ritual.

"It has been known in Mesopotamia probably since the 3rd millennium B.C.," Fabre said. "The soothsayer interprets the forms taken by the oil poured into a cup of water in an interpretation guided by manuals."

He added that the individual, or "medium," then goes into a hallucinatory trance when studying the oil in the cup.

"They therefore see the divinities, or supernatural beings appear that they call to answer their questions with regard to the future," he said.

The magus might then have used the engraving on the bowl to legitimize his supernatural powers by invoking the name of Christ, the scientists theorize.


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Goddio said, "It is very probable that in Alexandria they were aware of the existence of Jesus" and of his associated legendary miracles, such as transforming water into wine, multiplying loaves of bread, conducting miraculous health cures, and the story of the resurrection itself.

While not discounting the Jesus Christ interpretation, other researchers have offered different possible interpretations for the engraving, which was made on the thin-walled ceramic bowl after it was fired, since slip was removed during the process.

Bert Smith, a professor of classical archaeology and art at Oxford University, suggests the engraving might be a dedication, or present, made by a certain "Chrestos" belonging to a possible religious association called Ogoistais.

Klaus Hallof, director of the Institute of Greek inscriptions at the Berlin-Brandenburg Academy, added that if Smith's interpretation proves valid, the word "Ogoistais" could then be connected to known religious groups that worshipped early Greek and Egyptian gods and goddesses, such as Hermes, Athena and Isis.

Hallof additionally pointed out that historians working at around, or just after, the time of the bowl, such as Strabon and Pausanias, refer to the god "Osogo" or "Ogoa," so a variation of this might be what's on the bowl. It is even possible that the bowl refers to both Jesus Christ and Osogo.

Fabre concluded, "It should be remembered that in Alexandria, paganism, Judaism and Christianity never evolved in isolation. All of these forms of religion (evolved) magical practices that seduced both the humble members of the population and the most well-off classes."

So.

Remember that this is not a competition for heirarchical position;

i.e. Tenure Track

But for understanding.

Fractured as it is,

Because of whatever the hell Microsoft is doing.


hoka hey


john

[Minimalist]

Leave it to xtians to think that every time the word christos is written in Greek it is referring to their boy.

Christos means only "the anointed one".

[kbs2244]

Well, if it is from 2BC it sure could not refer to Jesus.
Doesn’t this fit into Ish’s ideas about Gnostic, magic practicing “Christians,” in Egypt?

[Minimalist]

Not to the "Jesus" that you mean. But even your own 2 sources don't agree on that story. And Ish is right that the gnostics seem to pre-date xtianity.

[Digit]

There is nothing to suggest that Jesus set out to found a new religion, equally he may well have been a member of an existing sect apart from the mainstream of the time.

Roy.

[Rokcet Scientist]

Microsoft has abruptly changed their format,

So I haven't figured a way to give you a picture of the cup.

So why no link, John?

[john]

All -

Here we go...............

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26972493/

By the way, it was my 'pute being weird.


hoka hey

john

[Minimalist]

[Grumpage]

At least it's a nicer inscription than those on the so-called Jesus Tomb.

[Ishtar]

Yes. Gnosticism existed before 1 CE and the stories were allegorical, about a MAGician - after all, miracles are just a polite word for MAGic.

The root MAG means power in Sanskrit, and the Persion MAGis were the men of power, men of ELectroMAGnetic power.

When the mystic impregnation of Mary took place in the serpent fertility rite, it was GABriEL as the 'messenger' who actually carried the seed. AB and ABR are names for the serpent, and RAM means 'lord of serpents', e.g. ABRAM, and the Vedic BRAHMA and RAM, and the Egyptian sun god RA. The Canaanite EL is also another appelation for the sun god, hence the Greek HELios, and the Hebrew ELisha, EL Elyon and EL Shadday.

In the Jesus story, after the impregnation by GABriEL, Mary sings the MAGnificat - My soul doth MAGnify the Lord. The child she bears, when he grows up, becomes associated with Mary MAGdELene in order for them to dance their own serpent fertility rite.

So the story of Jesus is about partly about ELectroMAGic, which after the correct initiations and teachings, anyone can perform. The later Christians, by historicising Jesus, made it as if only Jesus could perform 'miracles' and not the rest of us. ELectroMAGic was demonised and labelled as 'evil' and many a good witch was burned at the stake by the Spanish Inquisition.

The Witchfinder General would have had us believe that witches looked like this ...






... when in actual fact, they probably looked much more like this:







However, despite what we've been brainwashed with for the last 2,000 years, the magic of Jesus is not, and was never meant to be considered as, unique to him. Anyone who has ever been in India will know that the miracles or ELectroMAGic said to have been performed by Jesus is being performed there daily by thousands of fakirs, saddhus, yogis and the like... and they don't even think it's particularly a big deal.


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