Democracy today

Grumpage · Post by **Grumpage** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:21 pm

The reports of the attack on Obama by America's Hockey Mum makes me despair for democracy. These kinds of charges (in this case of guilt by association or worse) are often either false or sensationally embellished. But true or false, how does the voting citizen know what‘s what? Only by digging around and coming to an informed opinion (thank you God for the internet). But that involves a bit of work, possibly more than a bit, possibly a lot. How many voters would be bothered to do that?

Currently, the lifeblood of our democracies is a shrieking media-speak which is little more than an orgiastic production and consumption of half-truths, exaggerations and errors proclaimed in an incessant blast of obnoxious sound-bites.

Plato never cared much for democracy. I believe he considered it to be some form of degeneration. Little did know that we would prove him right.

Ishtar · Post by **Ishtar** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:36 pm

Grumpage

I thought of you today when reading the BBC's Robert Peston's blog as I thought you might enjoy it - not so much for Mr Peston's view alone on this financial armegeddon - although they are mildly entertaining and quite informative - but also because of the level of the comments, which I strongly urge you to read. I'm convinced that there are some very top level civil servants with Oxford firsts in economics commenting on this blog, despite their handles of David8977 and MontyLoop41, and they are coming up with some brilliant suggestions in an intellectually entertaining way.

Anyway, I'm enjoying it so I hope you may too!

We have to take our small pleasures where we can these days, before the whole lot comes tumbling down on our heads!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/

Here's one:

If the leaders of the EU are talking in unison, one quote comes to mind..

"Don't believe anything, until is has been officially denied.."

(Sir Humphrey).

.

Post by **Minimalist** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:03 pm

The Dow closed under 10,000 today which pretty much guarantees that not much that the Hockey Twit says is going to be front page news.

Better to associate with radicals now than bankers!

john · Post by **john** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:42 pm

Minimalist wrote:The Dow closed under 10,000 today which pretty much guarantees that not much that the Hockey Twit says is going to be front page news.

Better to associate with radicals now than bankers!

All -

Let us all run into the arms of Sarah Paliban, designer glasses, sexy heels,

Hockey Mom from Hell, and all that.

I think not.

McCain is gutshot, and has only

A yellow-press smear campaign

Of unprecedented proportions to save his holy POW ass.

Which his campaign is implementing as we speak.

Which is to say, it is possible this could happen;

Via some miracle voting machines, "et voila".

I note that a whiz-kid from Goldman Sachs

Was hired to manage that there 700B bailout.

I seem to remember the name of Goldman Sachs

Was prominent in the present crash and burn.

Dang. History do repeat itself.

His salary, and amendments, were unpublished.

And Bush is in the Bunker.

I see the International Wagons circling to re-establish

Business as Usual, As Soon As Possible.

Cute.

How about all of us who actually

Have to fucking work for a living?

Yes?

hoka hey,

john

Post by **Minimalist** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:10 pm

I keep wondering why Obama wants the job?

McSame i understand....he knows nothing aside from living off the public tit.

Grumpage · Post by **Grumpage** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:09 am

Ishtar wrote:I'm convinced that there are some very top level civil servants with Oxford firsts in economics commenting on this blog, despite their handles of David8977 and MontyLoop41, and they are coming up with some brilliant suggestions in an intellectually entertaining way.

I wholeheartedly endorse your sentiment. From my experience in government departments the standards of professional, intellectual and reasoned debate is very high. Originality, less so, but not lacking. Fixed views, some, but usually outnumbered by others. Despite Sir Humphrey's reputation his influence is, of course, mythical. Civil servants may have their faults but they are trivial compared to the mischevous and real power of the media and those politicians (and political candidates) who are in thrall to them.

I'm afraid the sheer scale of the blog and comments you recommended overwhelmed me at this late stage. But thanks for the pointer.

Concerning the current crisis. Some apologist for the banks said on the radio the other day that there was nothing wrong with the financial system - it was just some people who had made mistakes!

Ishtar · Post by **Ishtar** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:09 am

Grumpage wrote:
Concerning the current crisis. Some apologist for the banks said on the radio the other day that there was nothing wrong with the financial system - it was just some people who had made mistakes!

Of course! It's just the fault of the w ... er, I mean .. bankers!

Post by **Minimalist** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:33 am

Concerning the current crisis.

Seems to be a repeating equation, Ish.

One Bush = One Banking Crisis.

Hopefully, we won't be stupid enough to elect another one but I put nothing past the American electorate.

Ishtar · Post by **Ishtar** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:59 pm

Minimalist wrote:
Seems to be a repeating equation, Ish.

One Bush = One Banking Crisis.

Hopefully, we won't be stupid enough to elect another one but I put nothing past the American electorate.

Well, I don't blame Bush so much as risk based financial management, or any kind of risk-based management for that matter.

Which bright spark was it who worked out that the probability of non-repayment of mortgages by people whose credit histories were through the floor was unlikely, and that the impact of such an occurrence would be negligible? Surely, they were living in Never Never Land ...

Anyway, I was just about to move my £30.00 balance to Ireland when I heard on the news that, by tomorrow morning, I will be a shareholder in my own bank. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7657422.stm

.

Post by **Minimalist** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:11 pm

Well, I don't blame Bush so much as risk based financial management, or any kind of risk-based management for that matter.

You need to understand that there are two wings to the Republican party. There is the flag-waving, bible-thumping, know-nothing crowd who provides the votes that the MONEY MEN (part II) need to get elected so they can re-write all the rules or now, mainly, delete them.
These scumbags did not so much "break" any laws as merely having their wholly-owned subsidiary (the GOP controlled Congress) strike them from the books.

Quite an ingenious plan. Flag-waving for the dolts while they steal everything that isn't nailed down.

john · Post by **john** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:29 pm

Minimalist wrote:I keep wondering why Obama wants the job?

McSame i understand....he knows nothing aside from living off the public tit.

Minimalist -

As absurd as this sounds............

He's got a dream.

Which we haven't had in a damn long time.

I'll go with the dream

Rather than the well worn reflexive road

Of pulling more bucks out of

The average taxpayer's pocket

Every time the high-flyers get into

Trouble.

I mean, Caspian sturgeon roe,

The real caviar

Is SO necessary and SO expensive.

hoka hey

john

Post by **Minimalist** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:02 pm

He's got a dream.

Yeah but you know the problem with dreams, John?

You've got to be asleep to have them.

Grumpage · Post by **Grumpage** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:42 am

while they steal everything that isn't nailed down

Abraham Lincoln described one of his political colleagues as being so corrupt he would steal anything except a red hot stove.

Post by **Minimalist** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:41 am

Simon Cameron, Secretary of War.

john · Post by **john** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 1:52 pm

Minimalist wrote:
He's got a dream.

Yeah but you know the problem with dreams, John?

You've got to be asleep to have them.

Minimalist -

Waking dreams, or, more properly,

Dreams awake

Have propelled our world for tens of thousands of years.

cf: the shamanic, cave paintings, rock art across the continents,

Boats,

Hematite,

Just to name a few.

Now I looked into my dream-closet today

And found it mighty sparse.

It would appear that, in

My efforts to evade being ground into indistinguishable bits

By the economic/political/religious

Machine,

All of my effort and energy, subtly,

A creeping rogue wave,

Were directed to that end.

Thus, thirty eight years of almost maniacal work and

Maneuvering, and pulling off "impossible feats"

Have resulted in the almost empty dream-closet

I woke to this morning.

So I'm pondering, today, that loss.

OK.

Its water under the bridge.

Now, the task

Is to rediscover

The day/dreams.

I'm looking forward to this.

hoka hey

john

n.b.

A koan for you.

The dream awake is neither hull nor sail.

The dream asleep is neither hull nor sail.

Nothing propels nothing.

j