DISEASE BROUGHT BY WHITES
Moderators: MichelleH, Minimalist, JPeters
DISEASE BROUGHT BY WHITES
A DISCUSSION WITH A UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR WHILE SIPPING A NICE SINGLE MALT SCOTCH TURNED TO THE ISLAMS BRINGING BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS TO AMERICA. HE WAS VERY CONCERNED AND ASKED ABOUT THE ESTIMATED DEATHS OF NATIVE AMERICANS FROM CONTACT TO THE LATE 1800s FROM EUOPEAN DISEASES. SMALLPOX, WE KNOW, KILLED MANY. MY FAVORITE IS A GROUP FROM LEWIS & CLARK AFTER THE EXPEDITION, THAT WENT WEST INTO PROBABLY IDAHO AND FOUND A VILLAGE OF ABOUT 100 SOULS THAT SPOKE WELCH. WHEN RETURNING IN THE SPRING, ALL WERE DEAD--MOST NOT BURIED FROM SMALLPOX. THE INDIAN DENSITY IN MY AREA OF CENTRAL TEXAS WAS GREAT FROM THE ARTIFACTS FOUND. HAS THERE BEEN A REPLY WE COULD GIVE FROM SOMEONE INTERESTED IN An EDUCATED GUESS TO THIS QUESTION?
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Minimalist
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Gunny
First time I have heard it was Muslims that did that to my ancestors....did you happen to ask the professor where one might review his source?
It happened...but it was not Muslims
To go with Mins link: Early Biological War on Native Americans
I did a debate on this a few years ago (and won) I will see if I still have my notes.
First time I have heard it was Muslims that did that to my ancestors....did you happen to ask the professor where one might review his source?
It happened...but it was not Muslims
To go with Mins link: Early Biological War on Native Americans
I did a debate on this a few years ago (and won) I will see if I still have my notes.
"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan
The only restraints that we have on our mind are the ones that we impose on ourself. We are limited by our own thinking.
The only restraints that we have on our mind are the ones that we impose on ourself. We are limited by our own thinking.
zan -zan wrote:Gunny
First time I have heard it was Muslims that did that to my ancestors....did you happen to ask the professor where one might review his source?
It happened...but it was not Muslims
To go with Mins link: Early Biological War on Native Americans
I did a debate on this a few years ago (and won) I will see if I still have my notes.
Up her in the Northwest, the kill rate averaged a little bit over 60%.
Those who were lucky, 40%.
Those who were not, almost 100%.
This was from Oregon to Alaska, along the coast.
hoka hey
john
"Man is a marvellous curiosity. When he is at his very, very best he is sort of a low-grade nickel-plated angel; at his worst he is unspeakable, unimaginable; and first and last and all the time he is a sarcasm."
Mark Twain
Mark Twain
1491
Gunny, if you haven't done so already, read Charles Mann's book 1491. He does a decent but controversial job of outlining the devastation that European diseases brought to the New World. In the book he argues that the population of the New World was actually greater than that of Europe when Columbus landed and that the initial decimation rates approached 95% in many areas. As an example, Haiti had a population of 8 million which was reduced to zero by 1543.
Most native americans never saw a European before dying of transmitted diseases. I believe he also goes into the 1617 plague that wiped out much of Massasoit's tribe, thereby allowing the Pilgrims to survive their landing by becoming allies of Massasoit against their enemy, the Narragansett.
Most native americans never saw a European before dying of transmitted diseases. I believe he also goes into the 1617 plague that wiped out much of Massasoit's tribe, thereby allowing the Pilgrims to survive their landing by becoming allies of Massasoit against their enemy, the Narragansett.
Natural selection favors the paranoid
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Minimalist
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Cogs, what actual evidence does Mann have to back this up?
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.
-- George Carlin
-- George Carlin
1491
Min, I suggest that you obtain a copy of the book if you are interested. It is 506 pages with a 53 page bibliography and an additional 47 pages of reference notes. It is well-organized and researched.Cogs, what actual evidence does Mann have to back this up?
The Mexican Empire population drop from 25.2 million in 1518 to 700,000 in 1623 (97%) was extensively researched by Cook and Borah of Berkeley over a period of decades. Mann uses that source.
The population of the Tainos in Hispaniola was probably more like 500,000 as opposed to claims of up to 8 million. However, they were all gone except for about 200 by the Census of 1542 - done in by war, smallpox, measles, plague, influenza, etc.
Natural selection favors the paranoid
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Minimalist
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I'm slogging my way through Ken Humphreys' Jesus Never Existed right now and I have Philip R. Davies' and Niels Peter Lemche's new books lined up behind it but, yeah....it sounds like it would be a worthwhile project, Cogs.
These people can write them faster than I can read them.
These people can write them faster than I can read them.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.
-- George Carlin
-- George Carlin
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Frank Harrist
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Frank Harrist