DNA Study Shows No Link

[Minimalist]

between ancient body and modern Alaskans.

http://www.capitalcityweekly.com/storie ... 6085.shtml

[kbs2244]

OPPS..
"That's not what we hired you to find out."
Back peddle time.

[Minimalist]

Ah, yes.... one should be careful about asking questions that one does not really want answered!

[dannan14]

i think it was the other way around on this one. The researchers came to the trive and asked if they would participate, rathe rthan the tribe hiring the researchers to establish a multi-millenia claim to their land.

Based on the original article, before the results were known, i'd say this tribe is pretty laid back.

[kbs2244]

On re-reading the story, you might be right dannan.

Here is more from todays news page.

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/rural/so ... 36254.html

Note the 2nd paragraph.

[Digit]

DNA results are certainly showing some interesting results, plus some mysteries.
One of the things I would like answered is how often are DNA markers lost from a population, is it mathematically predictable?
How valid is ancient DNA as a clue to more recent populations if DNA markers keep vanishing?

Roy.

[dannan14]

Yeah, today's article was fascinating. It seems like this study just might be what it takes to kickstart wider genetic studies of NA natives. i think we all might especially like the parts that imply boats were highly important

[Digit]

I think boats is such an obvious idea it should be up to the doubters to disprove it if they can.

Roy.

[Minimalist]

Population geneticists trace all humans alive today back to common ancestors who lived in Africa about 60,000 years ago. As they migrated north out of Africa, then east and west across Asia and Europe, the common DNA they carried with them would occasionally mutate.

Different populations that migrated to different destinations carried different sets of mutations, which scientists have categorized into haplogroups and sub-haplogroups. The first people to migrate to the Americas all belonged to one of five primary haplogroups: A, B, C, D or X.

Something about this quote bothers me. I have to think about it more.

I wonder what would happen if they took the recently obtained DNA sample and compared it to the Ainu?

[Cognito]

I wonder what would happen if they took the recently obtained DNA sample and compared it to the Ainu?

The Ainu and Jomon.

[kbs2244]

Are we all assuming the guy was headed east and south?
From Asia?
Why couldn't he be north bound?
He seems to be an adventurous loner.
Cold he be coming from an established southern population?

[E.P. Grondine]

DNA results are certainly showing some interesting results, plus some mysteries.
One of the things I would like answered is how often are DNA markers lost from a population, is it mathematically predictable?
How valid is ancient DNA as a clue to more recent populations if DNA markers keep vanishing?

Roy.

Ancient DNA is always valid evidence.

Sometimes a marker survived, and sometimes they didn't. It is not mathematically predictable, as the causes very; in this case there is not too much doubt that diseases that the Vikings brought from Europe wiped out an earlier population. Perhaps this individual belonged to them.

On the other hand, I seem to remember that there are 3 or 4 ethnically distinct first peoples in Alaska, so if these remains are not from this one people, that does not mean that they were not closely related to another.
We'll see.

An important item here was that proper procedures were followed, so there was and will be as little disturbance as possible, and things will proceed peacefully. Archaeology and Native Americans can get along, after all.

[E.P. Grondine]

I wonder what would happen if they took the recently obtained DNA sample and compared it to the Ainu?

The Ainu and Jomon.

If you're interested in Ainu and Jomon, you might be interested in this little piece of work I did back in 1998:

http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc102898.html

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas

[E.P. Grondine]

DNA results are certainly showing some interesting results, plus some mysteries.
One of the things I would like answered is how often are DNA markers lost from a population, is it mathematically predictable?
How valid is ancient DNA as a clue to more recent populations if DNA markers keep vanishing?

Roy.

Ancient DNA is always valid evidence.

Sometimes a marker survived, and sometimes they didn't. It is not mathematically predictable, as the causes very; in this case there is not too much doubt that diseases that the Vikings brought from Europe wiped out an earlier population. Perhaps this individual belonged to them.

On the other hand, I seem to remember that there are 3 or 4 ethnically distinct first peoples in Alaska, so if these remains are not from this one people, that does not mean that they were not closely related to another.
We'll see.

An important item here was that proper procedures were followed, so there was and will be as little disturbance as possible, and things will proceed peacefully. Archaeology and Native Americans can get along, after all.

In this case, they were looking for a surviving mt DNA D haplogroup. This haplogroup evolved in Asia, and apparently came by boat, as it is common in South America. Their appearance in Alaska was also probably by boat, and relatively late, after the C and A mt DNA haplogroups had passed across the land bridge, but we'll see.

My guess is that this was the people that the Viking disease wiped out, the "Dorset", but again, we'll see. They pointed out in the article that there are other living first peoples who they need to sample yet.

[Minimalist]

It appears that the Ainu's ancestors were pretty much blown off the face of the Earth by an impact event in historically "recent" times, thus ending any earlier tsunami myth tradition that they may have had:

Yeah, E.P., I suspect this was the norm. In another discussion it was noted that someone had computed some 600 variants of the "flood myth" from all over the world. Yet, how many cultures (with variants of their own) did not survive long enough to either attain literacy on their own OR to come into contact with foreign scholars who wrote down their beliefs for them?

Given the propensity of mankind for warfare or the odd natural disaster, I suspect that far more than 600 variations existed at one time or another.