TV

[Digit]

I'm watching a programme about Man versus the climate, how climate has controlled where we live, and indeed our survival.
The programme covers the last 200000 yrs, and an ice age has resulted in substantial parts of Africa becoming arid desert so that Man's numbers fell to perhaps 10000 and restricted him to isolated oasis in and around the Rift.
All pretty conventional of course with the numbers based apparently on genetics.
Now my point.
Does anyone know of a comparable study conducted on other species for that time, if so do they conform?

Roy.

[Minimalist]

No.

I do recall a discussion about the alleged Toba bottleneck which ended with the observation that "how come HSS was the only species nearly wiped out?"

[Rokcet Scientist]

No.

I do recall a discussion about the alleged Toba bottleneck which ended with the observation that "how come HSS was the only species nearly wiped out?"

Because man was punished by God for his sins?

[Digit]

That is my problem Min. The people in the programme were pros with titles etc and the story ran thus. 200000 yrs ago the Homo population was estimated at maybe 100000 people. As the ice age bit Africa dried out and the population fell by 50 to 95 percent, this from a geneticist. A map of Africa was displayed with the 'known', their word, occupation sites, which they claimed were reduced to a 'few miles across with limited resourses.'
Quite!
Now my problem is simple, just how many herds of Elephant, Eland etc etc could survive such a scenario, and if they did, why didn't we?
It does not add up!

Roy.

[uniface]

The same way that one band of hunters followed a herd of mammoths across a land bridge into North America and multiplied into 100,000 people within a hundred years or so.

You're not supposed to examine these things too closely.

[Minimalist]

That might just be the answer, uni.

[Minimalist]

Now my problem is simple, just how many herds of Elephant, Eland etc etc could survive such a scenario, and if they did, why didn't we?

What about the mammoths and wooly rhinos? They survive this disaster but are done in by a few hunters with stone-tipped spears?

[Digit]

But gentlemen, according to the paleontologist on the programe these human enclaves were surrounded by desert and Homo was in isolated groups.
Surely if Homo was isolated so were many of the animals?
Another problem with their comments is, a dozen or so such enclaves, each a few miles across and a population of 10000?
The cop out I think is the 'known' enclaves, there must be many more 'unknown' sites, if that is so then surely many of their arguments fall?
Further thoughts. Taking their figure of 100000 and a 50 percent fall gives us 50000 to accommodate!

Roy.

[Minimalist]

Seems as if it would have been the ideal time for HNS to check out permanently, Dig. Wonder why he hung around for another 170,000 years.

[Digit]

Beats me Min. But unless someone can find a fault in my analysis I have to wonder why on Earth someone at some level in the production of the programme couldn't see the holes.

Roy.

[kbs2244]

Come on, you know better.
It is a TV show.
The object is to get as many pairs of eyes looking at the screen as possible.
There is no need for truth or reason to get in the way.

I did just pick up an interesting “fact” this PM though from a TV show.
Female Komodo Dragons can lay fertilized eggs without having mated.
If I heard it right, they would all be male and genetically different.
That means she could mate with one of them and get a mixed male/female litter (?) next time.

And then life goes on.

[Minimalist]

I don't know that attracting a mass audience is a big factor for anyone producing a documentary. No matter what they do they are going to get beat by "The Biggest Loser" or some other example of dreck. A bigger problem might be the Club mentality wherein only certain points of view are allowed to be heard. You wouldn't invite Zahi Hawass and Robert Schoch to the same party. Same principle applies here.

Which means, of course, that one has to do what Dig just did and watch these programs with a (very) critical eye.

[Minimalist]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/200 ... sconfirmed


LOL. Toba does have its fans, Dig!

The Toba eruption, which took place on the island of Sumatra in Indonesia about 73,000 years ago, released an estimated 800 cubic kilometers of ash into the atmosphere that blanketed the skies and blocked out sunlight for six years. In the aftermath, global temperatures dropped by as much as 16 degrees centigrade (28 degrees Fahrenheit) and life on Earth plunged deeper into an ice age that lasted around 1,800 years.

But, this was the line that really got me.

He also concluded that the disaster may have forced the ancestors of modern humans to adopt new cooperative strategies for survival that eventually permitted them to replace Neanderthals and other archaic human species.

But, obviously, Neanderthals and other archaic species were so well-adapted that they had no trouble surviving for six years without sunlight!

[Rokcet Scientist]

the Homo population was estimated at maybe 100000 people.

Just like in San Francisco today!

[Digit]

He also concluded that the disaster may have forced the ancestors of modern humans to adopt new cooperative strategies for survival that eventually permitted them to replace Neanderthals and other archaic human species.

They made a big issue of that view in the programme as well in relation to the last IA, but no mrntion of Toba. Your views on the selectivity of Toba are the same as mine Min as regards this programme, which is why I wondered about similar investigations of other species.

I take your point kb, but the quotes I made were by pro geneticist etc, not the front man.

Roy.