Neandertals weren't the first hominin

[Rokcet Scientist]

Neandertals weren't the first hominin in The Netherlands (which is the Rhine delta/estuary).
Until recently it was assumed that Neandertals were the first hominin that lived in The Netherlands. Now stone tools have been re-appraised and have now been dated to 370,000 years BP. This means that the first hominin can't have been HNS, but must, by inference, have been Homo Heidelbergensis. Afaik, no physical remains are available (as yet).

Google translation from Dutch:
http://translate.google.com/translate?j ... l=nl&tl=en

Further details are sketchy.

[E.P. Grondine]

Yeah! - you can not believe how much s***t I took for using in my book homo heidelbergensis to describe the early robust erectus, even though I tried to make the taphonmic confusion clear in the footnotes.

[Rokcet Scientist]

Yeah! - you can not believe how much s***t I took for using in my book homo heidelbergensis to describe the early robust erectus, even though I tried to make the taphonmic confusion clear in the footnotes.

Huh? "Homo heidelbergensis to describe the early robust erectus"...?
Don't you mean a later evolution of HE?

[circumspice]

Neandertals weren't the first hominin in The Netherlands (which is the Rhine delta/estuary).
Until recently it was assumed that Neandertals were the first hominin that lived in The Netherlands. Now stone tools have been re-appraised and have now been dated to 370,000 years BP. This means that the first hominin can't have been HNS, but must, by inference, have been Homo Heidelbergensis. Afaik, no physical remains are available (as yet).

Google translation from Dutch:
http://translate.google.com/translate?j ... l=nl&tl=en

Further details are sketchy.

Thanks for the laugh! It appears that translation programs need to be tweaked a bit... (see translation below)


Thu 25 Mar 2010, 12:48 Video Binnenland Stelling van de Dag Domestic Video Theorem of the Day
| lees voor | Read on

Neanderthalers niet de oudsten Neanderthals not the elders ROTTERDAM - ROTTERDAM -- Lang voordat de Neanderthalers rondliepen in het gebied dat we nu Nederland noemen, woonde er al een primitievere mensensoort. Long before the Neanderthals walked around in the area we now call Netherlands, has lived a primitive human species. Het TNO heeft in Woerden gevonden vuurstenen werktuigen gedateerd die zeker 370.000 jaar oud zijn. Dit heeft het populair-wetenschappelijke maandblad NWT Natuurwetenschap & Techniek donderdag gemeld. The TNO in Woerden found flint tools, which certainly dated 370,000 years old. This is the popular science magazine Nature Science & Technology NWT Thursday.


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De gebruiksvoorwerpen zijn de oudste die in ons land gevonden zijn. The utensils are the oldest in our country are found. Tot nog toe was bekend dat 'Nederland' zo'n 250.000 tot 300.000 jaar geleden al bewoond werd door Neanderthalers. So far it was announced that "the Netherlands' approximately 250,000 to 300,000 years ago was inhabited by Neanderthals. De vuurstenen vuistbijlen en schrapertjes zijn waarschijnlijk gemaakt door de voorloper van de Neanderthaler, de Homo heidelbergensis. The flint hand axes and schrapertjes are probably made by the predecessor of the Neanderthals, the Gay heidelbergensis. Twee jaar geleden waren de werktuigen nog onderdeel van een tentoonstelling over Neanderthalers. Two years ago, the tools still part of an exhibition about Neanderthals. Maar nu blijkt dus dat het gereedschap waarschijnlijk niet door Neanderthalers is gebruikt. But now it appears so unlikely that the tool used by Neanderthals.

[uniface]

So that's why they went extinct !

[Rokcet Scientist]

It took another 371.990 years before they could marry their own though!
And you thought we were 'progressive'...?

[Digit]

Of wow whee oh wow! Seeing as Boxgrove Man has been dated to well before then and identified as HH I am underwhelmed!

Roy.

[Rokcet Scientist]

Of wow whee oh wow! Seeing as Boxgrove Man has been dated to well before then and identified as HH I am underwhelmed!

Boxgrove Man was found in a quarry, i.e. on high and dry land. The Woerden stone tools were found in the Woerden area (duh!), today a municipal area in a 'polder' (reclaimed land), which, half a million years ago, was a swampy tidal flat that was submerged twice daily. Small wonder stuff in Sussex survived much better.

[Digit]

swampy tidal flat

Surely that's a good environment for preservation?

Roy.

[Rokcet Scientist]

swampy tidal flat

Surely that's a good environment for preservation?

Getting wet twice a day and being exposed to oxygen for the other two 6 hour periods is a fast train to decomposition, Roy.
Not to mention the crabs and other creepy crawlie scavengers that populate the perennially rising and falling waterline.
Swampy tidal flats are about the worst possible environment for preservation.

Next time you see some of those old heavy wooden mooring dalbens that are standing in the water have a look up close: they are considerably 'weathered' at the waterline. Not below the surface, where it's permanently covered by water, and not well above the waterline, which rarely gets wet. Only at the waterline, where it gets wet and dry, and wet and dry, etc.

[Digit]

In view of how long they have been there I assumed that they were below such activity.

Roy.

[Rokcet Scientist]

In view of how long they have been there I assumed that they were below such activity.

If 'they' had been organic matter 'they' would have decomposed within days, or weeks at most. Well before they had been covered (and thus preserved) permanently.

[E.P. Grondine]

Yeah! - you can not believe how much s***t I took for using in my book homo heidelbergensis to describe the early robust erectus, even though I tried to make the taphonmic confusion clear in the footnotes.

Huh? "Homo heidelbergensis to describe the early robust erectus"...?
Don't you mean a later evolution of HE?

Yeah. Efing anthropologist taxonomic nightmare for a space journalist.

But then I blame all of the mistakes in my book on the less than adequate work done by others earlier.

And what is this cr*p about "homonins" instead of "hominids"? Sounds too much like "homonyms" for me.

[Rokcet Scientist]

what is this cr*p about "homonins" instead of "hominids"? Sounds too much like "homonyms" for me.

'Hominins' is the most used plural for pre HSS today. I agree with you that it used to be 'hominids'. And that does 'feel' better to me too. Though I suspect both are attempts at anglicizing the latin word. If so they would both be wrong, really. After all, the plural for 'hominid' would probably be something more like 'hominidae'.

So I guess the preference for either is probably more like a linguistic fad. Like the pronunciation of police and pólice...

But I'm not a Latinist/Classicist. If I'm not mistaken Min is. Maybe he can shed some light on this.

[Minimalist]

Min doesn't care what you call them.