Neandertal wrap up

[Rokcet Scientist]

Our concept of Neandertals, and their relationship to Homo Sapiens, has changed considerably over the past 50 years. And now the Neandertal genome is unravelling. Here is the current state of affairs:

http://www.sciencemag.org/special/neand ... index.html

[Minimalist]

Nice find!

[kbs2244]

From the map it looks like they never got north of Liverpool.
I guess I can say to you others “Who’s your Daddy”

[Rokcet Scientist]

From the map it looks like they never got north of Liverpool.

Why would they want to? North of Liverpool they've got their own yobs, don't they?

[Digit]

Oooh! You believe in living dangerously don't you RS?

Roy.

[circumspice]

This study was done with genetic material of only 3 individuals, from the same cave system, from a relatively short time span.
I know that isolating ancient DNA is notoriously difficult... but I'd like to see a study that encompasses other regions and
different time periods. IMO 38-44kya is too short and too recent of a time span for a truly representitive sample of a species.

[Digit]

http://www.michaelshermer.com/2010/08/o ... -brethren/

Roy.

[Minimalist]

Thus it is — revealing the identity of my example — that we must reclassify Homo neanderthalensis as Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, a subspecies of Homo sapiens.

Okay. Everyone practice writing HSN instead of HN! There will be a quiz.

[Digit]

As usual Min it's taken the experts a lot longer than the rest of us to put the evidence together and reach a logical outcome hasn't it?

Roy.

[Minimalist]

Well...in fairness they want to see the evidence before putting their reputations on the line. I mean, we are free to speculate with no repercussions.

Of course, any moment now the rejoinder will come flying in....


NO THEY'RE NOT!!!!!!

[Minimalist]

More on the subject.


http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/ ... 092110.php

Neanderthals more advanced than previously thought
They innovated, adapted like modern humans

Denver (September 21, 2010) – For decades scientists believed Neanderthals developed `modern' tools and ornaments solely through contact with Homo sapiens, but new research from the University of Colorado Denver now shows these sturdy ancients could adapt, innovate and evolve technology on their own.

The findings by anthropologist Julien Riel-Salvatore challenge a half-century of conventional wisdom maintaining that Neanderthals were thick-skulled, primitive `cavemen' overrun and outcompeted by more advanced modern humans arriving in Europe from Africa.

"Basically, I am rehabilitating Neanderthals," said Riel-Salvatore, assistant professor of anthropology at UC Denver. "They were far more resourceful than we have given them credit for."

[Digit]

I may yet live to see them recognised as 'human' I think. People seem to forget that they were the most successful of our lineage.

Roy.

[Rokcet Scientist]

I may yet live to see them recognised as 'human' I think. People seem to forget that they were the most successful of our lineage.

How do you reckon that, Roy?
I'd say HE was the most successful to date because they existed for about 2 million years, whereas HSS is 'only' 196,000 years old and HN maybe existed for about a half million years, tops.

[Minimalist]

There were significant changes from early HE to late HE over the course of that very long time. HE did most of the heavy lifting in an evolutionary sense. Perhaps that alone qualifies them for the title of Champ?

How much evolving have HNS and HSS shown from early to late? Maybe the time will come when HSS is regarded as the natural outflow of HE with HNS being merely a group of the same which was isolated by climate and distance from the main highway of development?

[Digit]

Only if we agree on the meaning of 'human' gentlemen.

Roy.