Trans-oceanic contacts

[E.P. Grondine]

http://frontiers-of-anthropology.blogsp ... mbian.html

Thought you all might enjoy this.

[Gary Svindal]

An excellent reference, I believe Sorenson & Johannessen did a slam dunk presentation for trans-oceanic trade dating back to long, long ago. Thanks

[Minimalist]

In the aftermath of Columbus' voyage we know that widespread disease eviscerated the native american population which had no resistance to these infections. Why would earlier contact not have yielded a similar result?

[kbs2244]

"In the aftermath of Columbus' voyage we know that widespread disease eviscerated the native american population which had no resistance to these infections. Why would earlier contact not have yielded a similar result?"

I think there was a pretty long period of no contact.
From the Roman on to the European voyages.
That may have been long enough for any resistance to fade.

Besides the plague of Europeans seems to have been smallpox.
Isn’t it a relativity new disease.
Was it around in pre-Roman times?
I don’t think there is any evidence of Western Hemisphere smallpox prior to Columbus.

[Minimalist]

No.

http://www.infoplease.com/cig/dangerous ... error.html

The earliest evidence of smallpox skin lesions has been found on the faces of mummies from the eighteenth and twentieth Egyptian dynasties, and in the well-preserved mummy of Pharaoh Ramses V, who died in 1157 B.C.E. The first recorded smallpox epidemic occurred in 1350 B.C.E., during the Egyptian-Hittite War.

[Gary Svindal]

A very relevant question Min, and perhaps the answer is quite simply that, generally speaking, sickly people did not embark on long sea voyages. Another thought is that our historians have falsely branded the Spanish as responsible for bringing old world diseases into the new world.

There was an article submitted by Bruce Stutz in Discover Vol. 27 No. 02, February 2006, Anthropology section, for which I have no link, outlining a study by Dr. Acuna-Soto and a team of Mexican scientists regarding the Smallpox plagues that historians claim wiped out the Aztec Empire. Dr. Acuna-Soto studied Aztec Codices to determine that the plague was actually a native disease called Cocolitzi, and that the disease was a hemorrhagic virus - not Smallpox. Hemorrhagic diseases such as Ebola are not readily transmitted by human contact, but the result of rodent and insect distribution, and associated with long droughts and subsequent rainfall. The Aztec Codices listed 24 epidemics of Cocolitzli from 1545 to 1813 which killed 10 million Aztecs, but this was caused by a native hemorrhagic disease and not brought by the Spanish to Mexico.

The Spanish were also accused of bringing Syphilis to the new world, however a forensic analysis of the disinterred bodies of Columbus' crew buried on Hispaniola Island found no evidence for the presence of old world diseases and no scarring associated with Syphilitic conditions. We must therefore conclude that Syphilis was present in the new world before the arrival of Columbus. Wicked as they were, we cannot just blame the Spanish for everything.

[Minimalist]

A very relevant question Min, and perhaps the answer is quite simply that, generally speaking, sickly people did not embark on long sea voyages.

But by 1492 they were feeling well enough to travel?

[Digit]

For some odd reason the promulgators of that idea always seem to ignore the incubation period of Small Pox, one to two weeks. What chance a Spanish ship carrying that across the Atlantic?

Roy.

[Minimalist]

Is there really a consensus that it was smallpox which caused the original epidemics, though. It seems to me that speculation includes measels and influenza which were common enough in Europe and for which a measure of resistance had developed but which were unknown in the new world. You also have the potential for people carrying a disease which they do not suffer from but can still transmit not to mention the fact that there could be infected rats on the ships.

Europeans, at this time, had no clue about germs preferring to attribute disease to divine displeasure and an imbalance of bodily fluids. In fact, we were pretty stupid in the 15th century!

[countrcultur]

We're these earlier voyagers also Spanish and English? If not then maybe they were more closely related to the people of the new world and less likely to be living with diseases that the new world people couldn't live with. Just a thought

[Digit]

Pre Columbus there is evidence that old world met new on a number occasions, the Vikings, possible the Welsh and/or Irish and certainly the Portuguese.
With such a short incubation period I have doubts that anyone boarding a trans atlantic ship would have had visible symtoms, thus he could only have been in the early stages of the disease.
Therefore he would have been contagious and, short of throwing him overboard, isolation would have been difficult, that would suggest that all aboard who were not already immune would either be dead or no longer contagious upon arrival.
It was many years before a person who was incubating the disease could cross the Atlantic and be contagious on land fall.

Roy.

[Cognito]

We're these earlier voyagers also Spanish and English? If not then maybe they were more closely related to the people of the new world and less likely to be living with diseases that the new world people couldn't live with. Just a thought

Most of the killer disease began as cattle-borne and jumped to humans. It generally requires living in close quarters to spread a decent epidemic and most Europeans cities at the time were filthy. Since domesticated animals in 1492 favored Eurasia about two dozen to one over the Americas, those entering the New World had built up slightly better genetic resistance to a plethora of diseases that the Native Americans had never experienced.

Most Native Americans shared a common genetic ancestry with Asians; however, without the resistance buildup. Asians who experienced mass epidemics fared better than their Native American counterparts since they hadn't been isolated.

[circumspice]

The Spanish were also accused of bringing Syphilis to the new world, however a forensic analysis of the disinterred bodies of Columbus' crew buried on Hispaniola Island found no evidence for the presence of old world diseases and no scarring associated with Syphilitic conditions. We must therefore conclude that Syphilis was present in the new world before the arrival of Columbus. Wicked as they were, we cannot just blame the Spanish for everything.

I doubt that anyone can definitively account for the origin of many human diseases. Human migration has muddied the waters because we drag our old diseases with us and pick up new ones along the way. Then we 'generously' share all of them wherever we go... There have been suggestions that syphilis is a more recent, mutated form of other closely related diseases. (see below)

I object to the assertion that syphilis is a New World disease because there are no facts upon which to base that statement. (the absence of evidence is NOT evidence) The slave trade is far older than the 'official' discovery of the New World by European explorers. Why haven't Europeans blamed the peoples they have enslaved for the exotic diseases that have been introduced, possibly via the slave trade? Is it simply more popular to blame the New World for many of the Old World's woes?

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

Syphilis is a sexually transmitted infection caused by the spirochete bacterium Treponema pallidum subspecies pallidum. The primary route of transmission is through sexual contact; however, it may also be transmitted from mother to fetus during pregnancy or at birth, resulting in congenital syphilis. Other human diseases caused by related Treponema pallidum include yaws (subspecies pertenue), pinta (subspecies carateum) and bejel (subspecies endemicum).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syphilis

Yaws is found in humid tropical regions in South America, Africa, Asia and Oceania. Mass treatment campaigns in the 1950s reduced the worldwide prevalence from 50-100 million to fewer than 2 million; however during the 1970s there were outbreaks in south-east Asia and there have been continued sporadic cases in South America. It is unclear how many people worldwide are infected at present.
*Examination of ancient remains has led to the suggestion that yaws has affected hominids for the last 1.5 million years.* The current name is believed to be of Carib origin, "yaya" meaning sore. It is believed to have originated in tropical areas of Africa, and spread to other tropical areas of the world via immigration and slave trade.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaws

Bejel, or endemic syphilis, is a chronic skin and tissue disease caused by infection by a subspecies of the spirochete Treponema pallidum.
Although the organism that causes bejel, Treponema pallidum endemicum, is morphologically and serologically indistinguishable from Treponema pallidum pallidum, which causes venereal syphilis, transmission of bejel is not venereal in nature, generally resulting from mouth-to-mouth contact or sharing of domestic utensils, and the courses of the two diseases are somewhat different.
Bejel is mainly found in arid countries of the eastern Mediterranean region and in West Africa, where it is known as sahel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bejel

Pinta is a human skin disease endemic to Mexico, Central America, and South America. It is caused by infection with a spirochete, Treponema pallidum carateum, which is morphologically and serologically indistinguishable from the organism that causes syphilis.
Pinta is thought to be transmitted by skin to skin contact (similar to bejel and yaws), and after an incubation period of two to three weeks, produces a raised papule, which enlarges and becomes hyperkeratotic (scaly/flaky). Three to nine months later further thickened and flat lesions (pintids) appear all over the body. These generally resolve, but a proportion of people with pinta will go on to develop late-stage disease, characterised by widespread pigmentary change with a mixture of hyperpigmentation and depigmentation which can be disfiguring.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinta_(disease)

[circumspice]

Additional info on presumed Pre-Columbian cases of syphilis in Great Britain:
Near the end of this paper, several other putative cases are listed. Well worth reading.


http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 21371/full

ABSTRACT
This report describes a putative case of a treponemal infection observed on a skeleton of a young male adult from the Apple Down Anglo-Saxon cemetery dating to the sixth century AD, accompanied by grave goods indicative of a high status burial. The skeleton is well preserved and almost complete. The pathological evidence includes an extensive area of lytic destruction to the frontal bone of the skull, widespread profuse bilateral symmetrical periosteal reaction affecting scapulae, clavicles, arms, legs, hands, feet and ribs. There is also evidence of gummatous destruction on some of the long bones. Application of a differential diagnosis of all probable diseases exhibiting the individual symptoms leads to a clear conclusion that the person was infected with a treponemal pathogen. The skeleton shows none of the stigmata associated with the congenital form of treponemal disease. We propose that the evidence suggests a possible case of venereal syphilis rather than one of the endemic forms of treponemal disease. This diagnosis is based on the geographical pathogen range, the apparent low prevalence of the disease, significant social upheaval at the time, the high social status and early age of death of the individual. Am J Phys Anthropol, 2010. © 2010 Wiley-Liss, Inc.

[Minimalist]

Most of the killer disease began as cattle-borne and jumped to humans.

Beginning with Columbus' second voyage in 1493 the Spanish began bringing their animals to the New World.