VILHONNEUR, France — A 27,000-year-old human skeleton laid out in a room decorated with ancient art and a crude representation of a face are among the rare finds in a cave in western France, officials said Friday.
27,000 Year Old Human Skeleton Found in French Cave
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Minimalist
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27,000 Year Old Human Skeleton Found in French Cave
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.
-- George Carlin
-- George Carlin
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Minimalist
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Looks like a rock to me.
Wait....I think I see a pyramid.
Wait....I think I see a pyramid.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.
-- George Carlin
-- George Carlin
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Guest
let me askthis question:
when skeletons are discovered, should we automatically assume taht teh people who were once owners of those bones, 100% healthy and normal?
is it not possible that some of these old humans suffered from deformities and diseases (such as elephantitis) which would abnormally distort the skeletal structure?
are not mistakes then made in the identification process?
when skeletons are discovered, should we automatically assume taht teh people who were once owners of those bones, 100% healthy and normal?
is it not possible that some of these old humans suffered from deformities and diseases (such as elephantitis) which would abnormally distort the skeletal structure?
are not mistakes then made in the identification process?
Just like the famed Bird-Man /Shaman in Paleolithic art that has defied explanation, this face may not need to be descriptive of the subject matter. "The Mind In The Cave" is a good read, although it is good to keep an open mind with this author (compares Neanderthals to cats and dogs in terms of intelligence - my cats have never set up a tent anywhere! ie - forethought and planning!), but the author deduced that any and all paintings were the product of travelling in a drugged/hallucinating "vision quest". All cultures that do this sort of thing have common art (from the enigmatic lines and dots in paleolithic art to San representation) becuse of common experiences in the halucination - from auditory to visual hallucinations (ie - buzzing = art depicting bees, travelling in a tunnel/underwater, the spots flying around). All of these paintings are to be direct connections to the spirit realm.
Or so goes the idea according to the author. I wish I knew more on the subject. Another comment that makes me cautious of all of this particular author's ideas is that he was dead set against using contemporary cultures to explain why paelolithic man created art, but then all of his ideas come from the San, and to a small degree AmerIndian shamans and art.
Another important aspect of this find - were engravings or bone fragments (non - human) present? How similar is this to other caves and art from the same time period? Bones were frequently stuck in outcrops and weged into cracks. I don't know anything about the significance of that.
Just to throw that out there.
And, how would pathology change dating of skeletal remains? I don't think that this is a case of a cossak ridden with disease (hint, hint).
Or so goes the idea according to the author. I wish I knew more on the subject. Another comment that makes me cautious of all of this particular author's ideas is that he was dead set against using contemporary cultures to explain why paelolithic man created art, but then all of his ideas come from the San, and to a small degree AmerIndian shamans and art.
Another important aspect of this find - were engravings or bone fragments (non - human) present? How similar is this to other caves and art from the same time period? Bones were frequently stuck in outcrops and weged into cracks. I don't know anything about the significance of that.
Just to throw that out there.
And, how would pathology change dating of skeletal remains? I don't think that this is a case of a cossak ridden with disease (hint, hint).
Good points Darwi.
Ritual burial tells us an awful lot about a culture I think. The first recorded one I think was that of Neandertal in the Levant. That individual was buried with flowers and medicinal herbs. (as some have speculated).
This burial is obviously Homo Sapien and we can probably surmise that these people had thoughts of an afterlife or a feeling of ancestor worship at the least.
I agree with you about shamanism. I don't think this site shows any distinct evidence of that.
Welcome Darwi
Ritual burial tells us an awful lot about a culture I think. The first recorded one I think was that of Neandertal in the Levant. That individual was buried with flowers and medicinal herbs. (as some have speculated).
This burial is obviously Homo Sapien and we can probably surmise that these people had thoughts of an afterlife or a feeling of ancestor worship at the least.
I agree with you about shamanism. I don't think this site shows any distinct evidence of that.
Welcome Darwi
[quote] Is this site really similar to others? If not, what can be construed from this individual or site?[quote]
In western Europe, there has not been a ritual cave burial that I know of that is this old. I thimk that puts it in a class of it's own.
Having said that, someone may let us know something different.
In western Europe, there has not been a ritual cave burial that I know of that is this old. I thimk that puts it in a class of it's own.
Having said that, someone may let us know something different.
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Minimalist
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archaeologist wrote:let me askthis question:
when skeletons are discovered, should we automatically assume taht teh people who were once owners of those bones, 100% healthy and normal?
is it not possible that some of these old humans suffered from deformities and diseases (such as elephantitis) which would abnormally distort the skeletal structure?
are not mistakes then made in the identification process?
This is actually one of the better questions you have asked.
First of all, it is impossible to generalize but even the Spartans would "expose" deformed infants to the elements and let the gods decide.
(translation - deformed infants died of exposure or animals.) Would primitive bands tend to handicapped individuals? Who can say but it does not seem as if they could afford idle mouths to feed.
Second, I seem to recall a thread about life span and the notion of a long life span for early man is not borne out. No antibiotics, impure water, parasites, injuries, violence, child-birth (always a biggie) etc would have whittled the population down considerably.
It is unlikely that these people lived long enough to develop diseases such as many forms of cancer which took too long to develop or diabetes, etc.
Still, the question remains valid and medical experts can tell from a skeleton if there were specific indicators of disease.
Of course, if the skull was cleaved by an axe they might have a fair idea of the cause of death right there.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.
-- George Carlin
-- George Carlin
Let me add to your post Minimalist.
A great deal can be known from skeletal remains regarding the health of an individual. It's doubtful that elephantiasis would be discerned however, snce it involves the lymphatic system.
Of course race, gender, age, etc. are easy to see - so are more subtle things like handedness (neandertals BTW had the same right vs. left handedness percentage as modern humans), and even diet. Isotopic analysis of the bones can not only tell us what he ate, but where he ate it.
The most classic example of our advance in science and medicine in archaeology is the initial impression that a Neandertal skeleton had when discovered in the Neander Valley. It appeared that the individual was a stooped, bow-legged brute. We now know that it was an elderly person with crippling arthritis. That first impression has stayed with Neandertal ever since.
There is much that we can tell about the health of an individual from his bones. Too much to list.
A great deal can be known from skeletal remains regarding the health of an individual. It's doubtful that elephantiasis would be discerned however, snce it involves the lymphatic system.
Of course race, gender, age, etc. are easy to see - so are more subtle things like handedness (neandertals BTW had the same right vs. left handedness percentage as modern humans), and even diet. Isotopic analysis of the bones can not only tell us what he ate, but where he ate it.
The most classic example of our advance in science and medicine in archaeology is the initial impression that a Neandertal skeleton had when discovered in the Neander Valley. It appeared that the individual was a stooped, bow-legged brute. We now know that it was an elderly person with crippling arthritis. That first impression has stayed with Neandertal ever since.
There is much that we can tell about the health of an individual from his bones. Too much to list.