The Eagle & the Snake

[uniface]

1,900-year-old Roman eagle sculpture discovered in London during archaeology dig

30 Oct 2013 08:19

The sculpture features an eagle grasping a writhing serpent in its beak, and is almost fully intact.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/19 ... z2jDhYUNWH

Seems odd that showed up in 19th Century Mexico. Or maybe that it had a Roman antecedent.

Or something. (?)

[kbs2244]

Huh ??
Is there a London in Mexico??

[Ernie L]

Huh ??
Is there a London in Mexico??

I believe he was referring to the Mexican flag. The image that occupies the centre space in the flag . The image represents part of the Aztec legend about the founding of Tenochtitlan.
http://globerove.com/mexico/mexican-flag-symbol/1074

[uniface]

Romans & Aztecs using the same emblem ?

Uh oh . . .

[shawomet]

Romans & Aztecs using the same emblem ?

Uh oh . . .

Maybe if it were a whole lot more complex as an image, a lot more complex, we might be justified in being puzzled. But I think as it is, you really cannot rule out independent origins. It's just an eagle grasping a snake. I don't think it has to lead us to conclude the Image originated with Roman visitors. The Aztecs are long past the Roman Empire as well, although I don't know how far in the past such iconography would be found in Mesoamerica.

Remember the wreck with Carthaginian amphora Robert Marx found off Brazil, and then the Brazilian government dumped tons of silt on the site so no more could be raised to the surface and threaten the Portuguese discovery narrative? I think they were Roman era, but that was decades ago now. I'm sure you're familiar with the story, but here's a summary if not:

http://www.nytimes.com/1985/06/25/scien ... razil.html

http://rmtowersconspiracy.wordpress.com ... by-romans/

[uniface]

"Diffusion-ism." Provokes hysteria wherever encountered.

No matter how much sense it makes.

PS : Thanks for the link. Lots of neat stuff there. E.g.,
http://rmtowersconspiracy.wordpress.com ... ical-view/

[Ernie L]

Raptors eat snakes....and it's been noticed a couple of times...meh !


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meh

[uniface]

They eat snakes here in the US too. But we don't put them on our flags & seal.

Ditto Germany.

Etc.

[kbs2244]

I am a believer in diffusion.

But I have to admit that the Roman Empire direct to Aztec link is weak.

That is not to say the Roman to Mexico line is weak.
Is there any evidence the symbol pre-dates the Aztec in Mexico?

[Ernie L]

They eat snakes here in the US too. But we don't put them on our flags & seal.

Ditto Germany.

Etc.

No not on the flag but damn near everything else Uni...You want to see our use of the eagle with something in its beak....pull out a dollar bill and look at the green side..or your passport...its called the great seal of the United States of America. No snake in it's beak but a snake like banner. I'm not trying to play the last word game here so this is my last word on eagles and snakes...cheers

You want snakes then Ok I give ya snakes he he he

[uniface]

If ribbons count, then tongues must too (?) :

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... sadler.svg (Austria)

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/18/22655 ... 2478ca.jpg (Poland)

http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/mosic ... ration.jpg (Russian Federation)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... casila.svg (Indonesia)

http://www.cometosyria.com/files/images ... yria/4.gif (Syria)

[uniface]

I am a believer in diffusion.

But I have to admit that the Roman Empire direct to Aztec link is weak

OK. But that's a description of the current model of the past. Check out the Las Lunas inscription though (not some debunking of it -- an in-depth account).

[kbs2244]

I have long thought that Los Lunas is a criminally neglected site.
I have a whole folder devoted to it.

I don’t know if the ships brought the Samaritans were from Rome or Carthage
though. Or maybe is was Samaritans by themselves. The Jews sailing ability has long been miss-understood.
As far as time frame, I lean toward the idea that it was put there by Samaritan copper merchants, in their own Diaspora, escaping the invasion by going to the mines in AZ.

But you are right, if it was Roman, it puts an influence there lone before the Aztecs.

BTW, the Decalogue is far from the only rock art on the mesa.
There are petroglyphs carved all around it.
It was an important site for many people for many years.

[Minimalist]

http://www.badarchaeology.com/?page_id=959

Viewed dispassionately, the Los Lunas inscription is a clear, but well constructed forgery (for its day). Despite the claims of high antiquity, there are features of the text (such as the mixing of letter forms between two separate alphabets) that are much more likely to derive from the work of a modern forger than from an ancient Hebrew or Samaritan scribe.

Now what is the purpose of such a forgery? Cui bono? (Who benefits?)

Ah yes....



Los Lunas is just southwest of Albuquerque along the route of the Mormon Battalion. Let's see? Who might have in interest in pretending that their bullshit story of Jews in America might be true and would be willing to plant evidence to that effect? Oh, yeah.....the Mormons!

Give me a break, huh?

[uniface]

Viewed dispassionately, the Los Lunas inscription is a clear, but well constructed forgery

Who might have in interest in pretending that their bullshit story of Jews in America might be true and would be willing to plant evidence to that effect?

Pardon me, Min, but presenting your prejudices under the guise of "dispassionate" objectivity is as transparent as it is humorous.

Were these same people responsible for burying hundreds of pieces of broken crockery all over the place where amateurs and archaeologists would find them -- each one with a depiction of a local life form (e.g., a horned toad) and the first letter of its name in their language using Aramaic letters ? (See Barry Fell on that). (And spare me the "he was an oceanographer" crap. It is not unusual for PhDs teaching at Harvard to have several interests and be competent in them).