Gonna Give EP Apoplexy Here

[uniface]

incapacity or speechlessness caused by extreme anger.

[Yates is of Cherokee descent, he has a Ph.D. in classical studies, and he founded the genetics research institution DNA Consultants. These three credentials have given him a unique perspective on Native American history as it relates to these ancient cultures, and how DNA testing can support the theoretical link.]

Native Americans are generally thought to fit into five genetic groups, known as haplotypes, each named by a letter of the alphabet: A,B,C,D, and X.

Yates demonstrated in a paper titled “Anomalous Mitochondrial DNA Lineages in the Cherokee,” what he calls the fallacy behind many genetic analyses: “[The geneticists say] ‘Lineage A, B, C, D, and X are American Indian. Therefore, all American Indians are lineage A, B, C, D, and X.’ The fallacy in such reasoning is apparent. It could be restated as: ‘All men are two-legged creatures; therefore since the skeleton we dug up has two legs, it is human.’ It might be a kangaroo.”

Any divergence from the expected haplotypes is usually attributed to an intermingling of races after European colonization, not to the genes that came with Native Americans from their origin.

After analyzing Cherokee DNA, Yates concluded, “No such mix could have resulted from post-1492 European gene flow into the Cherokee Nation.”

“So where do our non-European, non-Indian-appearing elements come from?” he asked. “The level of haplogroup T in the Cherokee (26.9 percent) approximates the percentage for Egypt (25 percent), one of the only lands where T attains a major position among the various mitochondrial lineages.”

Yates focused on haplotype X for “its relative absence in Mongolia and Siberia and a recently proven center of diffusion in Lebanon and Israel.”

In 2009, Liran I. Shlush at the Israel Institute of Technology published a paper in the journal PLOS ONE stating that the X haplotype spread through the world from the Hills of Galilee in northern Israel and Lebanon. Yates wrote: “The only other place on earth where X is found at an elevated level apart from other American Indian groups like the Ojibwe is among the Druze in the Hills of Galilee in northern Israel and Lebanon.”

Though much of the Cherokee culture has been lost, noted Yates in his book “Cherokee Clans,” what can still be discovered about the legends hints at ancestors who came across the sea and whose language was similar to ancient Greek. Some linguistic parallels have also been drawn between the Native American languages and Egyptian and Hebrew.

The Cherokee’s white demigod Maui may have his roots in a Libyan leader of a fleet dispatched by the pharaoh Ptolemy III before 230 B.C., Yates explained. “Maui” is similar to the Egyptian words for “guide” or “navigator.” Maui was said to have brought all civilized arts and crafts. He gave the Cherokee their title for principal chief, Amatoyhi or Moytoy, said Yates, which translates as “mariner” or “admiral.”

He recounted a Cherokee Twister Clan legend that named Maui’s father as Tanoa. Yates said Tanoa may refer to a Greek. “Tanoa was the father of all fair-haired children and came from a land called Atia,” he wrote.

Atia may refer to Attica, a historical region encompassing the Greek capital, Athens. Atia was said to be a place “full of high alabaster temples,” one of which “was very spacious, and was built as a meeting-place for gods and men.” At this place, one found sporting competitions, games, feasts to the gods, meetings of great chiefs, and the origin of wars that caused people to spread over the Pacific.

“One could hardly invent a more fitting folk memory of Greek culture,” Yates wrote. “The Hawaiian word that epitomized this lost world is karioi, ‘leisure, ease,’ literally the same word in Greek for ‘amusements.’” Yates notes numerous other linguistic similarities.

“According to the Keetoowah Society elders, the Cherokee once spoke a non-Indian language akin to Hopi, but gave it up and adopted Mohawk to continue to live with the Iroquois. The ‘old tongue’ seems to have many elements of Greek, the language of Ptolemaic Egypt and ancient Judeans,” he said.

Adair noted linguistic similarities between Native American languages and Hebrew.

As in Hebrew, Native American nouns have neither cases nor declensions, wrote Adair. Another similarity is the lack of comparative or superlative degrees. “There is not, perhaps, any one language or speech, except the Hebrew and the Indian American, which has not a great many prepositions. The Indians, like the Hebrews, have none in separate and express words. They are forced to join certain characters to words, in order to supply that great deficit,” he wrote.

Adair offers a perspective on the culture Yates cannot. Adair interacted extensively with the Native Americans hundreds of years ago, while their traditions were still thriving. Of course, the extent to which he may have misunderstood that culture as an outsider must be taken into account.

“From the most exact observations I could make in the long time I traded among the Indian Americans, I was forced to believe them lineally descended from the Israelites, either while they were a maritime power, or soon after the general captivity, the latter however is the most probable,” Adair wrote.

They had a similar tribe organization, he said. Their manner of delimiting time was similar, as was their custom of having a most holy place, and their designation of prophets and high-priests.

He gave an example of a similar custom: “Correspondent to the Mosaic law of women’s purification after travel, the Indian women absent themselves from their husbands and all public company, for a considerable time.”

He explained the absence of circumcision among Native Americans thus: “The Israelites were but forty years in the wilderness, and would not have renewed the painful act of circumcision, only that Joshua inforced it; and by the necessary fatigues and difficulties, to which as already hinted, the primitive Americans must be exposed at their first arrival in this vast and extensive wilderness, it is likely they forbore circumcision, upon the divine principle extended to their supposed predecessors in the wilderness, of not accepting sacrifice at the expense of mercy. This might soothe them afterwards to wholly to reject it as a needless duty, especially if any of the eastern heathens accompanied them in their travels in quest of freedom.”

It seems the Cherokee people have had mixed feelings about Yates’s work. While the Central Band of Cherokee website has posted a summary of Yates’s research, some online comments indicate that some Cherokee have been reluctant to stand behind such claims or to involve themselves in the controversy.

In writing about the Cherokee Paint Clan, Yates stated: “Some of them practiced Judaism, although United Keetoowah [a Cherokee organization] elders vehemently deny this.”

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/831180- ... nt-greece/

[Minimalist]

You know, Uni, I don't necessarily check out every source someone posts...but with some people I find it necessary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epoch_Times

The Epoch Times was started in 2000 by John Tang and a group of Chinese Americans who were practitioners of Falun Gong

What's next? The Moonies? Their "newspaper" is the Washington Times.

[uniface]

:facepalm:

Damn ! I forgot to judge the book by its cover ! Again !

Mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa.

[E.P. Grondine]

As the main Cherokee history was destroyed in a courthouse fire in 1861, this sounds like a fascinating book.
It will take a place on my 6 foot tall reading pile.

In my view the 16 Cherokee divisions are likely to be more important for proto-historical work than their 8 clans.

The X mt DNA haplogroup I have discussed extensively.
I will add that myself and my co-author on recent works are exploring X mt DNA sites in Ohio.
By the way, X mt DNA sometimes expresses among the Cherokee, and I've met several individuals in whom it has.
I refer to them as members of the Cherokee football team, or the Cherokee basketball team.

Perhaps the T mt DNA haplogroup is a remnant of the Ocanachee and Yuchi.
This my explain similarities between the southern languages and Hebrew.

I've read Adair's arguments, and they seem forced. Adair was trained in Hebrew, and he may have fit the southern languages into that training.

But as Adair knew what he was doing, and was very fluent in several of the southern languages, who knows?

As far as trans-oceanic contact goes, both the B and D my DNA haplogroups came across the Gulf of Mexico during the Formative, and from Asia by water to the Americas before that.

If the T mt DNA haplogroup is the marker of the population group which went from North Africa to South America, and then crossed the Gulf of Mexico coming North, then that explains neatly that set of "myths".

Most of these problems arise from trying to fit the First Peoples into a European framework.

[uniface]

Most of these problems arise from trying to fit the First Peoples into a European framework.

But isn't that what you just DID ?

[E.P. Grondine]

Hi min -

"Li charged less than competing qigong systems for lectures, tapes, and books, and in 1994 had altogether stopped collecting fees for his lectures.[5] With the publication of the books Falun Gong and Zhuan Falun, Li made his teachings more widely accessible. Zhuan Falun, published in January 1995 at an unveiling ceremony held in the auditorium of the Ministry of Public Security, became a best-seller in China.[108][109]

"In 1995, Chinese authorities began looking to Falun Gong to solidify its organizational structure and ties to the party-state.[39] Li was approached by the Chinese National Sports Committee, Ministry of Public Health, and China Qigong Science Research Association (CQRS) to jointly establish a Falun Gong association. Li declined the offer. The same year, the CQRS issued a new regulation mandating that all qigong denominations establish a Communist Party branch. Li again refused.[3]

"Tensions continued to mount between Li and the CQRS in 1996. In the face of Falun Gong's rise in popularity—a large part of which was attributed to its low cost—competing qigong masters accused Li of undercutting them. According to Schechter, the qigong society under which Li and other qigong masters belonged asked Li to hike his tuition, but Li emphasized the need for the teachings to be free of charge.[33]"

[uniface]

Min : And Michael Cremo dedicated Forbidden Archaeology to swami guru somebodyorotherwhosenamesoundsIndian. Does that invalidate what he found and brought to peoples' attention ?

We inherited "Reformers vs. Papists."

But we don't have to keep replaying it under the aegis of "Science vs. Superstition."

[E.P. Grondine]

Most of these problems arise from trying to fit the First Peoples into a European framework.

But isn't that what you just DID ?

NO.

I tied Native American Traditional Histories to hard physical evidence.

uni, be sure to listen here:
http://archaeologica.boardbot.com/viewt ... f=9&t=3538
and then get back to me.

[uniface]

I tied Native American Traditional Histories to hard physical evidence.

That linked them with Europe . . .

[E.P. Grondine]

The data as it is understood by some researchers now:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_T_%28mtDNA%29

But remember the general state of DNA research, as this may change next week.

[E.P. Grondine]

I tied Native American Traditional Histories to hard physical evidence.

That linked them with Europe . . .

my g*d, can you read, uni?
Or are you so blinded by "fringe" shit that you can not understand clear English?

I tied First Peoples with mankind as a whole, including Asiatic mt DNA haplogroups.

[Minimalist]

:facepalm:

Damn ! I forgot to judge the book by its cover ! Again !

Mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa.

YOu should be more careful when you cite crackpots.

You do it a lot.

[E.P. Grondine]

:facepalm:

Damn ! I forgot to judge the book by its cover ! Again !

Mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa.

YOu should be more careful when you cite crackpots.

You do it a lot.

Hi min -

Yes, uniface does do that a lot.

Bu clearly, there is a big difference between the Moonies and Falun Gong.

How "Epoch Times" made it above the rest of the sites out there is of interest.
Perhaps it represents Chinese readership affecting internet ranking.

[uniface]

I tied First Peoples with mankind as a whole