Pleistocene Atlatls

[uniface]

http://www.livescience.com/49603-paleo- ... dence.html

Kind of amazing that it took until now for somebody to do a simple study that demonstrated what should have been obvious.

[Minimalist]

It makes sense though. Sometimes I think that we think far more one-dimensionally than the ancients. Why would people who have to hunt or die limit themselves to one weapon at a time?

Let's say that you and I and 4-5 others spotted a herd of mammoth 15,000 years ago. Wouldn't the better way to attack such a target be to send of volley of darts towards it hind legs, wounding it and making it unable to keep up with the rest of the herd? Then you have to follow...maybe tossing in some more darts to weaken it if the opportunity presents...until it falls far behind and weakens. Then you go in with your big thrusting spear and finish it off.

The thought of 5-6 people armed with, at best, a flint tipped thrusting spear going after a 6-8 ton animal would make me soil my loincloth, uni.

[Frank Harrist]

We kind of knew this already from projectile point sizes and styles. A point that is too heavy and large for an arrow and too small for a spear had to have been mounted on a dart and thrown by an atlatl. Common sense tells you that. But this study confirms it. Good find.

[Kalopin]

Maybe the Clovis people had an assembly line with quality control, but I would think- just sharpen the rock and attach it to a stick? Would it not stand to reason that most spears, javelins, lances, harpoons, atlatls,...would end up in very similar design, in order to work?

...anyway, I would like to propose that the Clovis culture did not exist during the Pleistocene but began at the start of the Holocene and that this primitive existence was brought on by the catastrophic force of the Moon impacting where the Mediterranean sea now exists, 13k yrs ago... This will explain every detail, the loss of technologies so apparent, loss of history, megafauna, megaflora, dinosaurs,... The Texas points are considered the oldest and were dated at 13,500 years old, I would think, close enough to the YDB?

[uniface]

IMO, the fly in your ointment there is that, according to Benjamin Eble (who is the one researcher who -- in more opinions than merely mine -- is the only researcher in the field of Pleistocene lithic technology who has ever perfectly replicated what Clovis did and how they did it, using the tools found in the archaeological record and only those tools), Clovis had a complete grasp of Solutrian technology (a fact only recently officially admissible although it had been noticed 95 years ago, due to Stanford and Bradley having been able to effectively sell it to the archaeological community).

So now, if conventional dating is anywhere nearly correct (IMO, a pretty shaky assumption), the actual technology involved goes back to . . . what ? 28,000 years ago ?

(For whatever it may be worth -- assuming anything -- Benjamin notes that it's demonstrable from the notes of 19th century ethnographers that the technology of flintknapping in the western hemisphere never underwent change or loss so much as it was simply adapted to use along different lines to accomplish different objectives).

[Kalopin]

yea, that's what I thought, just some more of the same...
oh, it's no where near over: http://scienceblogs.com/aardvarchaeolog ... ypothesis/
read the comments, "pestleman1951" put it on him [size and knapping style].

I believe the misunderstandings can be solved using my research. If a catastrophic break-up of Pangaea occurred 12,900 years ago, then this will explain every detail and the reasons for the discrepancy in time...

I have little doubt that several different ethnic groups came to the Americas 13k years ago, as many probably knew exactly what had occurred. Why do so many want to assume common genetics for the first groups arriving in the 'new world'? Could there not have been at least some diversity within these earlier cultures?

[uniface]

Your response strikes me as the non sequetor of all time. Could just be me though.

What the mindset that produces the kind of articles you linked ignores -- by design -- is that the history of the western hemisphere has been a long game of "Survivor" played by disparate and hostile bloodlines. As even the oral history of the (ahem) "Native" Americans demonstrates. Making "Who's left standing after XX,000 years" an indicator of who won. And of little or nothing else relevant to the issue.

[Minimalist]

The moon is still in the sky. It is not apparent that it impacted anything 13,000 years ago.

Nor, did Mohammed split it in half.


Nor is it made of green cheese.


Nor did a cow jump over it.

[Kalopin]

The moon is still in the sky. It is not apparent that it impacted anything 13,000 years ago.

Nor, did Mohammed split it in half.


Nor is it made of green cheese.


Nor did a cow jump over it.

then don't be afraid, take it over to my thread...
... and explain to me how pyramids and temples were built underwater and deep within caves...
...explain why there are microspherules covering more than three continents containing nanodiamonds formed at way too high a temperature to be any airburst or serial impact...
...explain the older dryas disappearing and never growing that large again...
...explain all the details concerning the effects caused to form the YDB...
have you even study what had occurred?
...and the 'Clovis' knife dated to 15,000 years is off by two...

Minimalist, the current state of impact physics is a joke and anyone that will put in the study will find this out. There are many craters larger than Chicxulub. The Moon is still in the sky after impacting this planet several times...and each time it brought a better balance to their orbital elements...
What would be the current explanation?

If you really want to know the truth, then study my research. If you would like to remain in lalaland, then believe what you have been taught. ..
It may be safer for the more primitive mindset?

[Kalopin]

Your response strikes me as the non sequetor of all time. Could just be me though.

What the mindset that produces the kind of articles you linked ignores -- by design -- is that the history of the western hemisphere has been a long game of "Survivor" played by disparate and hostile bloodlines. As even the oral history of the (ahem) "Native" Americans demonstrates. Making "Who's left standing after XX,000 years" an indicator of who won. And of little or nothing else relevant to the issue.

my argument remains the same...
Clovis period lasted from 13kya to 10.5kya and this is written in the climatological record.
13kya the Moon impacted the Mediterranean, basically cleaning off the entire north American continent ['the great die-off'- This has all been studied and verified].
Understand there has to be an explanation and the only source is a massive Lunar impact.
They're [HIWG] looking for the impact crater/s involved to produce this outcome...
...and the remnants of which would be the Mediterranean sea, as every single tectonic interaction reverberates from this central location...

Is there some other explanation I am unaware of? ;-]

[circumspice]

Is there some other explanation I am unaware of? ;-]

Kalopin 151 26 Mar 2013, 16:38

[Kalopin]

Is there some other explanation I am unaware of? ;-]

Kalopin 151 26 Mar 2013, 16:38

why won't you tell everyone what caused the end of the Pleistocene, Circumspice? lol;-]]]]]]]

[Minimalist]

The Moon is still in the sky after impacting this planet several times...and each time it brought a better balance to their orbital elements...

Hey Circ....

[circumspice]

The Moon is still in the sky after impacting this planet several times...and each time it brought a better balance to their orbital elements...

Hey Circ....

LMAO!

[Kalopin]

...for our ancestors to see pyramids and temples buried in caves, would be similar to landing on the beach and seeing the statue of liberty buried beneath sand and rock...
what part would you be playing?

This analogy to 'the planet of the apes' is a great example to what has occurred.
It should not be difficult to understand that devolution follows closely to evolution and that catastrophes on this magnitude happen on a regular basis throughout the universe on every habitable world...

the cute jokes are indications of this devolutionary process... [exhibiting stupidity]
do I need to slow down? ;-]]]]]]]