Tanning pits?

Frank Harrist · Post by **Frank Harrist** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:12 am

Yesterday a man gave me a stone he said had been used in the tanning of hides by the Caddo Indians of this area. I had never thought of how they had gone about tanning hides so I know next to nothing about that particular facet of their technology. Does anyone here know anything about the methods native americans used? The man said there were supposed "tanning pits" where he found the rock. My research has shown they used tree bark for tannic acid, and sometimes lye from ashes. But online I've not found a lot. Anyone more knowledgeable than me on this subject, please enlighten me as best you can. I know we don't discuss NA archaeology here much, but some of you have to know something more than I do.
The stone he gave me was a sandstone which had been used so much it was flat and smooth. About a half inch thick and four inches in diameter. Flat on one surface and slightly rounded on the other, whcich was not as smooth as the flat side. He says it was used for smoothing worked leather. I had never heard of this. It's not a scraper. The edges are rounded off.

Post by **Minimalist** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:51 am

I bet Charlie knows this backwards and forwards but I seem to recall that part of the process involved scraping the back of the skin with a stone to remove any residue.

Frank Harrist · Post by **Frank Harrist** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:42 am

Minimalist wrote:I bet Charlie knows this backwards and forwards but I seem to recall that part of the process involved scraping the back of the skin with a stone to remove any residue.

Right, but this stone is smooth. No edges at all. It could have been used to abrade the hide after it had been scraped. Kind of working it to make it supple as part of the final stages of the tanning process. The pits are new to me though. I suppose they had to have some place to soak the raw hides in a tannic acid solution. A hole in the ground, somewhere away from camp, because they had to stink. I was hoping someone had a link to a site which described the process in detail.

Off topic:Bob, you gotta read 1491 by Charles C. Mann. Its great!

Post by **Minimalist** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:16 pm

I did a search for you on "Tanning Process" and came up with this.

Not exactly on point but a nice photo....beats those damned hills in Bosnia.

http://www.paradisetanningstudio.com/process.php

I'll try again.

Post by **Minimalist** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:21 pm

This might be a use for your smooth stone.....I doubt the Indians had sand paper.

Step 7 - SANDING

After softening the hide, rub fine grit sandpaper over the surface of the hide to remove tool marks and further soften the leather. When it looks very soft and smooth, your buckskin is ready for use in making clothing, bags, wall handing or anything else you desire. (See Suggestions below for another sanding method)

Frank Harrist · Post by **Frank Harrist** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:32 pm

Minimalist wrote:I did a search for you on "Tanning Process" and came up with this.

Not exactly on point but a nice photo....beats those damned hills in Bosnia.

http://www.paradisetanningstudio.com/process.php

I'll try again.

Great pic!

Frank Harrist · Post by **Frank Harrist** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:33 pm

Minimalist wrote:This might be a use for your smooth stone.....I doubt the Indians had sand paper.

Step 7 - SANDING

After softening the hide, rub fine grit sandpaper over the surface of the hide to remove tool marks and further soften the leather. When it looks very soft and smooth, your buckskin is ready for use in making clothing, bags, wall handing or anything else you desire. (See Suggestions below for another sanding method)

I kinda figured something like that. I wonder if anyone has ever found tanning pits before.

Post by **Minimalist** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:40 pm

Off topic:Bob, you gotta read 1491 by Charles C. Mann. Its great!

On your recommendation I added it to my "cart" at Amazon.com. I'm working my way through RK's Roman Empire book at the moment... and of course, still going back to torment arch with quotes from Finkelstein and Dever!

stan · Post by **stan** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:38 pm

Hi, Frank.
Last week there was a program about the preservation/conservation of the US Declaration of Independence and Constitution, which are written on parchment -- Sheepskin or other animal skin.
There was a demonstration of a guy actually making parchment.
After the boiling of the hide, there was a lot of scraping involved. The
hide was stretched on a frame, not lying on a flat surface. While it was
being scraped, the skin was still supple and soft. It was scraped down until it was pretty thin, and dried on the same frame. Then a rectangular "page" was cut out, and voila!
TO be honest, I don't remember what kinds of tools he used.

But here's another idea: Remember, the Indians would heat stones and drop them into water to make it boil. If the pit was in the ground, they couldn't build a fire under it.
But your stone seems to small and flat for that.

I know that some of the Plains Indians specialized in making and trading hides. FOr example, at Pecos Pueblo in New Mexico, the people who lived there made a lot of pottery, and the story goes that they would trade them to the Plains indians from further east, who brought hides to
exchange. So maybe these plains tribes had complexes of "tanning pits" near their villages and where they had plenty of fuel, for this purpose.

Sam Salmon · Post by **Sam Salmon** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:17 pm

The technonoly was pre-pit.
I seemed to remember that they used animal brains as a tanning agent and so they did-as per this link.
http://www.nativetech.org/tanning/index.html

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:21 pm

Hmmm - that makes sense Sam. There's an awful lot of fatty acids in the brain.

Post by **Minimalist** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:31 pm

Beagle wrote:Hmmm - that makes sense Sam. There's an awful lot of fatty acids in the brain.

No talking about Bush, here!

Frank Harrist · Post by **Frank Harrist** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:04 am

Sam Salmon wrote:The technonoly was pre-pit.
I seemed to remember that they used animal brains as a tanning agent and so they did-as per this link.
http://www.nativetech.org/tanning/index.html

Thanks, Sam! Thank you too, Stan.

stan · Post by **stan** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:46 am

Sam wrote:

"The technology was pre-pit. "

What do you mean, Sam? You mean the parchment-making technology? That was only a couple hundred years ago, so are you saying the pits exist and are a recent phenomenon?

Sam Salmon · Post by **Sam Salmon** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:15 pm

stan wrote:Sam wrote:

"The technology was pre-pit. "

What do you mean, Sam?

I was referring to the tanning of leather.

At the same time I'm also deeply engrossed in a historical fiction series of novels-Iron-Age Britain and all that-so my contributions here are sometimes a tad unfocused.