Correcting obvious errors where needed

ReneDescartes · Post by **ReneDescartes** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:34 am

On my quest on the internet I've encountered numerous errors made on creationists websites . Whole cases are build on faulty information that could easily be corrected .For a proper debate one needs to be provided with correct information .I think we owe it to the readers of these websites to correct those obvious mistakes .
So I took it upon me to offer correct information to Mr Estabrook who seems to be responsible for correcting errors on following website
http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/15
Here is the email I wrote

Dear Mr Estabrook

I was a bit amazed when I observed what appears to be an obvious error on the following webpage of your organization :http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/15
Kindly address following statement on that page :
Dennis Swift (who also was personally acquainted with Javier Darquea of Peru) made a trip to view the figurines. After receiving permission from the local authorities, he began to unwrap the ceramic figures. Dr. Swift noted:

There was an absolutely astonishing moment of breathless magnitude as one object was unwrapped and there before us was an Iguanodon dinosaur figurine. In the 1940s and 1950s, the Iguanodon was completely unknown. No hoaxer could have known of the Iguanodon’s existence, much less made a model, for it wasn’t until 1978 or 1979 that skeletons of adult Iguanodons were found with nests and babies (Swift, no date). [For documentation on the Iguanodon discovery to which Swift alluded, see The Dinosaur Encyclopedia (Michael Benton, 1992, New York: Simon & Schuster, p. 80).]
THat part was found in the topic The Acambaro figurines .
In fact iguanodons have been known since the nineteenth century,no lessthan 30 complete skeletons were unearthed in Bernissart Belgium in 1878 ,300 meters under the earth surface.For your kind attention I will provide following hyperlink to that well established discovery : http://www.naturalsciences.be/museum/halls/dinos/ .Obviously a lot of links provide a lot of information on this event which was at that time a world famous discovery .
I hope you will look into this matter as it would be embarassing if it became public knowledge that your argumentation in favor of creationism rests on such a fragile assumption.
Yours truelly
xxxx

I am curious to see if any correction will be made after providing this gentleman with correct information
Of course more errors are easily corrected on that webpage and will be addressed.
So I am wondering if the members of this forum could post some more of
these obvious mistakes encountered whilst surfing the web .I also think that if it appears such gross errors are left uncorrected other channels should be alarmed and provided with information .
Any more suggestions ?

Post by **Minimalist** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:54 am

Your mistake is in treating them as real people who could be embarassed by making mistakes.

They probably made a doll of you to stick pins in.

ReneDescartes · Post by **ReneDescartes** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:08 am

Well if they don't want to correct such gross mistakes there is plenty of possibilities to force them ,trust me . I suppose they have forums too ,and newspapers ,etc .How would it look to the world if they were exposed in the media as being dishonnest .It would be an easy task to keep your mail and their reaction when confronted with it available for the pressand other media.If there is a case for fraud or misleading it must be carefully build up .Arcgaeology and science are no simple hobbies ,they are a heritage of mankind and are to be made available for everybody .If that means to confront archaic hermeticalsystems of belief so be it .It is one thing to debunk fraud in this forum .It is just as easy to do it towards the ouside world ,it just takes a bit more time , and it isfun too,don't you think .
One for all,all for one .

Post by **Minimalist** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:22 am

Rene.....try to imagine the intellectual dregs you'd find on a creationist forum.

All good Republicans, I'm sure!

Frank Harrist · Post by **Frank Harrist** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:30 am

It's a great idea Rene, but I can pretty much guarantee you that they will ignore your letter or they will come up with some way to dismiss the facts, like arch does. They turn a blind eye to anything which disagrees with their dogma. They wil sneer down their nose at you as a minion of satan. You (and me and many others) are the outsiders whose sole purpose in life is to discredit the bible so we don't have to follow god's rules. The word you used, hermetical, is perfect to describe their system. "Stay isolated from the sinners and don't listen to anything they say." Talk, don't listen, is kinda what it amounts to.
I wish you luck, Rene. You'll need it and plenty of patience to boot. Me, I've banged my head against the wall enough.

ReneDescartes · Post by **ReneDescartes** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:04 pm

Frank ,how can they do that when I am merely pointing out that they make an error in stating that the first skeleton of iguanodon was found in the 1970 ies ,they should be gratefull to me for helping to correct their errors.It isasimple fact that these creatures were dug up 'en masse' in 1878 and reconstructed .Suppose they ignore my mails (and all of yours if they choose to do so ) and continue to host these errors ,how easy will it be to show the world that they are a fraud and not the honnest christians they claim to be .Asfor me it is great fun to perform this task ,not at all timeconsuming as I provide the emailadresses,the links to the website and the information with proof . The internet has been the warzone for fundamentalists for a long time .They have succesfully used it to propagate their nonsensesulk like children when our kids will be spoonfed their nonsensical theories at school .I think science is worth a little effort .

Frank Harrist · Post by **Frank Harrist** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:37 pm

ReneDescartes wrote:Frank ,how can they do that when I am merely pointing out that they make an error in stating that the first skeleton of iguanodon was found in the 1970 ies ,they should be gratefull to me for helping to correct their errors.It isasimple fact that these creatures were dug up 'en masse' in 1878 and reconstructed .Suppose they ignore my mails (and all of yours if they choose to do so ) and continue to host these errors ,how easy will it be to show the world that they are a fraud and not the honnest christians they claim to be .Asfor me it is great fun to perform this task ,not at all timeconsuming as I provide the emailadresses,the links to the website and the information with proof . The internet has been the warzone for fundamentalists for a long time .They have succesfully used it to propagate their nonsensesulk like children when our kids will be spoonfed their nonsensical theories at school .I think science is worth a little effort .

Go for it then, dude. I don't have the time or the patience.

Post by **Minimalist** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:04 pm

Frank ,how can they do that when I am merely pointing out that they make an error in stating that the first skeleton of iguanodon was found in the 1970 ies ,they should be gratefull to me for helping to correct their errors

Rene, my good friend, do you really think that people who could write drivel such as this:

There are some technical problems that God would have faced in including dinosaurs in the creation account. There is no word for "dinosaur" in the Hebrew language. Now, God could have invented a Hebrew word for dinosaur and explained what those animals were like and how they had died out. However, this is a one page description of the creation of the world and life in it. Trying to explain about an extinct group of creatures would have taken a lot of space and distracted from the rest of the creation account.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/dinosaurs.html

are remotely interested in hearing facts?

stan · Post by **stan** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:33 pm

Rene, I admire your zeal to correct scientific error, but I agree with
the comments of Frank and Minimalist here.

THey are not subject to peer review, so they don't have to be intellectually honest.

Plus ultimately, it is a matter of their FAITH in the supernatural, so they don't need facts or reality.

FUrthermore, the leaders of religious groups are basically demagogic, trying to build their power base of disciples...as many people as possible who will sign on to their teachings.

And in the US, there are some sayings like
"It's a free country."
"Everybody has a right to his opinion."
and "We have freedom of religion."
which carry a lot of weight with people who are not well educated, allowing them to be as loony as they please as long as they dont break the laws..

ReneDescartes · Post by **ReneDescartes** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:14 am

Ok guys
I took the time to investigate a bit some of the links you've sent me and indeed it appears I am confronted with an impossible task .THe amount of fraud,misinterpretation,lies and stupidity requires a god to complete the task of correcting them all.Unfortunately there is none available .Almost every page ends with the request for money ,disguised as a donation . I sincerely had no idea the situation was so bad .Untill now I thought Arch was the typical representative of that current in human thinking .I 've now revised a bit my opinion about him .Compared to most of the stuff I 've waded through he is a genius .How did it get to this ?I think it would be best if all these guys were to be made to pay income taxes .

Post by **Minimalist** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:26 am

Compared to most of the stuff I 've waded through he is a genius

Oh, no.....what have you done!

ReneDescartes · Post by **ReneDescartes** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:17 pm

You should recognize a tongue in cheek statement ...

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:46 pm

On my quest on the internet I've encountered numerous errors made on creationists websites

that is assuming you are right, which from what i have seen is not possible. you can't even post constructive or honest replies so why would they listen to you.

Untill now I thought Arch was the typical representative of that current in human thinking .I 've now revised a bit my opinion about him .Compared to most of the stuff I 've waded through he is a genius

i knew it wasn't an honest remark, rene, like marduk, can't be honest.

ReneDescartes · Post by **ReneDescartes** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:58 pm

Look Basil just to name one ,Iguanodons were discovered'en masse in 1878 and reconstructed by paleontologist .I 've posted a website from crteationists claiming the first complete skeleton was found in 1978 .Their whole case rested on that date .Say otherwise and you are just a liar as it is there for everybody to read.In that very same article they even use the ICA stones,which are a fraud .So if they can not rely on errors and lies they have no case .Bye bye

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:03 pm

i knew it wasn't an honest remark, rene, like marduk, can't be honest.

back with the dishonest slur again Arhc
thats normal practice for you when you know you're wrong but can't admit it because it means youre an idiot

in 1834, in a stone-quarry in Maidstone, a blast revealed a mass of rock containing a number of fossil bones of what proved to be an Iguanodon

here is a painting based on that discovery showing an iguanodon

it was painted in 1838
so youre an ass Arch
once again