Physical implications of Noah's Flood

[ed]

Given the 64 pages devoted to the flood on a seperate thread, I thought that this series of calculations might get lost. They are important since they indicate that nothing would have survived, nothing at all. The limitation is that the energy released has not been estimated. Such a calculation would make things worse.

Clearly, the biblical account is hyperbole, at best.

I thank Dr. X of Skepticalcommunity.com for these calculations. I hope that he will join us at some point.

Out of the interest of completeness [He has no life.--Ed.] I decided to perform the calculations I suggested HungryforFaith try.

The radius of the Earth [rE--Ed.] varies so I will use the average of 6,372.795477598 km = 6,372,795.478 meters ~ 3,959.87 miles.

As noted previously, the waters have to cover the mountains to satisfy both extant biblical Flood Myths. If I wished to be "strict" I would use Mt. Everest, but I will be "nice" and use the highest mountain in Palestine, Mt. Hermon, which is 9,232 ft or ~2,814 meters high.

To calculate the volume of the Flood [VF--Ed.], one needs to subtract the volume of the Earth [VE--Ed.] from the volume of the Flood and Earth [VF+E--Ed.]

Recalling grade school geometry:


Volume of Sphere = 4/3πr3


to get VF+E, we need the radius of the Flood [rF--Ed.] which is the height of Mt. Hermon added to rE:


rF = rE + Mt Hermon = 6,375,609.478 meters which I will round-up to 6,375,610 meters to cover the mountains.


Thus:


rE = 6,372,795.478 meters
rF = 6,375,610 meters

VE = 1.084122985 X 1021 m3
VF+E = 1.085559749 X 1021 m3

VF = 1.4367645 X 1018 m3 of water


Now we need the surface area of Earth [SAE--Ed.] Since:


Surface Area of Sphere = 4πr2


SAE = 5.103520056 X 1014 m2 of Earth.

Thus, 2,815.242194 m3 of water per m2 of Earth ~ 743,707.73 US liquid gallons water per m2 of Earth.

Yes . . . I could simplify this damn thing, but I do not wish to lose Creationists.

Now, nearly 750,000 gallons hitting each square meter sounds like a lot. How long does it take accumulate? Well, what do the myths say?


J: Gen 7:4

Because in seven more days I will rain on the Earth, forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe out all the substance that I have made on the face of the Earth.

P:Gen 7:12

And there was rain on the Earth, forty days and forty nights.


Since, 40 days = 40(24 hrs)(60 min/hr)(60 s/min) = 3456000 s we have 0.00081495 m3 of water per m2 of Earth per second = 0.8 Liters/m2E-s = 0.215 193 36 gallons/m2E-s.

Now, what is the pressure exerted by this rainfall? Since 1L = 0.998 kg, the mass of the water per m2E-s is:


0.7984 kg/m2E-s = 1.76 lbs/m2E-s


PSI is pounds per square inch, 1 m2 = 1,550.003100006 inch2, we have 2,728 psi applied every second of this period to the surface area of the Earth. "Googling" home water pressures, you find pipe rated for under 300 psi. A "booster" fire hose gives you only 800 psi.

What type of pressure is that? Since 14.6960 psi corresponds to one atmosphere we are talking about 189 atm applied to the Earth during the 40 day/night period!

That is 189 atm applied to mountains, the ark, et cetera!

Interestingly, 4,600 psf, or 4,600 pounds per square foot, is the pressure created by Hiroshima atomic bomb at the epicenter. Since there are 144 square inches per square foot, that comes to only about 32 psi, a mere 1/83rd of the pressure of the rain.

[Minimalist]

"Hyperbole" was the Greek word for bullshit, right?

[ed]

"Hyperbole" was the Greek word for bullshit, right?

As they say, the Greeks had a word for it.

Aside from the nonsensical implications of housing 2-100 million species
(http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 103731.htm)
Feeding them and providing liveable environments. Lack of evidence of a global flood and so on, I thought that the basic enormity of such an event and it's physical implications ought to be mentioned.

What frightens me is that people that seriously believe these myths want to have a say in educating our kids.

[Minimalist]

I doubt that adherents of a fairy tale in which the sun stands still in the sky will be all that impressed by those calculations.

But, perhaps I'm wrong and Arch will see the error of his ways?

[stan]

i have always wondered where the rain came frm?Ordinarily, rain is water evaporated from the earth and condensed in clouds, from which it returns to the earth. If all the water on the earth were
evaporated into clouds, then rained back down, it would run back to where it was in the first place...not cover the entire earth to the height of mountains...it would be violent, though.

If it was enough to cover the whole earth to the height of some mountains, someone must have brought in some extra water from somewhere.
So after it rained for 40 days and nights and then covered all the mountains, where did the water go after that?

[Minimalist]

You guys just don't understand MIRACLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ed]

i have always wondered where the rain came frm?Ordinarily, rain is water evaporated from the earth and condensed in clouds, from which it returns to the earth. If all the water on the earth were
evaporated into clouds, then rained back down, it would run back to where it was in the first place...not cover the entire earth to the height of mountains...it would be violent, though.

If it was enough to cover the whole earth to the height of some mountains, someone must have brought in some extra water from somewhere.
So after it rained for 40 days and nights and then covered all the mountains, where did the water go after that?

I really cannot understand how people can believe this stuff. I suppose most of them are pretty illiterate, scientifically. The point is that you don't just monkey around with things on a global scane and expect that all will be well.

A good scientific discussion of the issue is here

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noa ... plications

[Guest]

i will stick tothe one original thread on noah's flood, so don't expect me to reply here. i appreciate the few religious threads we have and i do not want to overcrowd this forum, with more.

i believe scriptures not science, science is merely a limited tool which cannot account for everything that takes place inthe universe and to rely solely onscience means fooling yourselves.

if you want my comment on your posts here, please post them in the other Noah's flood section.

[Tech]

Excellent site ed thank you , also strained my math but I did follow it ,
what Arch means is that it has too many facts for him to handle
and although (as far as I can see) all the facts and evidence to back up the points raised are well ordered and presented, every scientist and fact quoted has to be wrong
Because his book is right

[Minimalist]

Even jesus couldn't walk on that much water, Tech.

[Guest]

what Arch means is that it has too many facts for him to handle

don't speak for me and read my latest post inthe original noah's thread.

[spacecase0]

I always thought the biblical flood was mostly a flood and partially rain caused by all the water, what is with the asumption with all the water comming from above ?

I think that when the meditranian flooded it looked like the discription you read in the bible, and if that flooding was caused by ice caps melting and rising ocean levels, then we would see the reports worldwide that are out there.

or is this forum for convincing the creationists?
because I have tried before, and it either works fast because they are open minded, or never happens because they only believe what the pastor tells them on sunday (logical or not).
it is best to let the second group be happy even if reality passes them by, trying to convincing them helps no one.

[Minimalist]

I think the Med goes back about 5 million years.

Arch, of course, will dispute the date because he believes in creationism and not science.

[ed]

I always thought the biblical flood was mostly a flood and partially rain caused by all the water, what is with the asumption with all the water comming from above ?

I think that when the meditranian flooded it looked like the discription you read in the bible, and if that flooding was caused by ice caps melting and rising ocean levels, then we would see the reports worldwide that are out there.

errrr ... it rained for 40 days and 40 nights.

or is this forum for convincing the creationists?
because I have tried before, and it either works fast because they are open minded, or never happens because they only believe what the pastor tells them on sunday (logical or not).
it is best to let the second group be happy even if reality passes them by, trying to convincing them helps no one.

I have found that when dealing with "true believers" of whatever stripe, it is not for them, it is for the lurkers that generally seriously outnumber the posters. These folks observe the absurdities, fabrications, selective use of data, lies, arm waving and other assorted mechanisms to deny facts. Then they can decide.

That is who I am posting for.

The children. We must think of them.

[bandit]

Though I have to plead a severe lack of knowledge in this area, I was told or I read it somewhere, a very long time ago, that the flood mentioned in the bible was possibly just a recounting of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers overflowing their respective banks and covering the land that lies between them. Thus giving the impression to the local residents that the world was being inundated.

Whether this is an acceptable theory or not I don't know, but it sounds like it coulda, sorta, maybe have happened.