Knossos and Evans

oldarchystudent · Post by **oldarchystudent** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:49 pm

I’m reading my Greek Archaeology text and it’s all about the palace at Knossos right now. It’s interesting stuff but I can’t help the feeling that a lot of it may be mis-named based on the personal preferences of Arthur Evans. Do we know that this room really is a “throne room” because the one chair built into the wall looks like a throne? Do we know the queens apartment really was the queen’s apartment? Do we know that a queen even lived there?

Was this even a palace? In many ways, although far more opulent, it looks a lot like an agglomerated settlement along the lines of Catalhoyuk. It probably is a palace or ceremonial centre of some kind, but I wonder if there is more Evans in Knossos than there is Minoans.

Starflower · Post by **Starflower** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:37 pm

You bring up a very good point about Knossos and I personally believe it could be true about every archaeological site. It is difficult to be completely objective about anything. Our own preconceptions just keep getting in the way. I like to believe there was a queen for the 'queens apartment' I'd hate to think of that ancient flush toilet being wasted on a king

oldarchystudent · Post by **oldarchystudent** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:41 pm

Starflower wrote:You bring up a very good point about Kronos and I personally believe it could be true about every archaeological site. It is difficult to be completely objective about anything. Our own preconceptions just keep getting in the way. I like to believe there was a queen for the 'queens apartment' I'd hate to think of that ancient flush toilet being wasted on a king

Heh! Is this that femenist archaeology I keep hearing about?

Knossos seems to suffer more from this kind of wishful thinking than a lot of other places (well, Schleimann was pretty good at it too).

Post by **Minimalist** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:56 pm

Perhaps the "Throne Room" really was a "Throne?"

oldarchystudent · Post by **oldarchystudent** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:12 pm

Minimalist wrote:Perhaps the "Throne Room" really was a "Throne?"

Do you mean a throne or a "throne"?

Could be, but Evans moved a nearby bath into a room and called it a bathroom. Not good scientific methodology but in that rosy Edwardian view of antiquity folks were very interested in finding the grand mythic past even if they had to rearrange it to suit.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:17 pm

It's well known that Evans made a pigs ear of the whole site

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:20 pm

http://www.culture.gr/2/21/211/21123n/e211wn01.html

This article has a picture of the "throne".

Post by **Minimalist** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:23 pm

Doesn't look very comfortable.[/url]

Starflower · Post by **Starflower** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:28 pm

The book I have is not online but this site does reference the flush toilet.
http://www.daedalus.gr/DAEI/THEME/Minos20.html
I have looked at the throne and it looks mighty uncomfortable. Although with a bunch of pillows and a throw or two it might be okay.

And in an overview of the site it really does resemble an agglomerated settlement.

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:28 pm

Thanks for poppin' that up Min.

Nope - looks damned uncomfortable.

Post by **Minimalist** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:32 pm

As Mel Brooks said..."it's good to be the king."

I think Star is right about the pillows. Wouldn't want the Royal Arse sitting on a rock.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:29 pm

The book I have is not online but this site does reference the flush toilet.

pfft
its not exactly the earliest example of a flush toilet is it

stan · Post by **stan** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:41 pm

I read that the palace was the prototype of the
"labyrinth." Anything to that?

Post by **Minimalist** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:48 pm

stan wrote:I read that the palace was the prototype of the
"labyrinth." Anything to that?

The myth of Perseus and the Minotaur.

Now it happened that Androgeus, son of Minos, had been killed by the Athenians, who were jealous of the victories he had won at the Panathenaic festival. Others say he was killed by the Cretan bull at Marathon (his mother's former taurine lover) which Aegeus, king of Athens, had commanded him to slay. To avenge the death of his son, Minos waged war and won. He then demanded that seven Athenian youths and seven maidens, drawn by lots, be sent every ninth year (some accounts say every year) to be devoured by the Minotaur. When the third sacrifice came round, Theseus volunteered to go to slay the monster. He promised to his father, Aegeus, that he would put up a white sail on his journey back home if he was successful. Ariadne, in the Greek version the daughter of Minos, fell in love with Theseus and helped him get out of the labyrinth by giving him a ball of thread, allowing him to retrace his path. Theseus killed the Minotaur (with a magical sword Ariadne had given him) and led the other Athenians back out of the labyrinth.[1] However Theseus forgot to change the black sails of mourning for white sails of success, so his father, overcome with grief, leapt off the clifftop from which he had kept watch for his son's return every day since Theseus had departed into the sea. Then it became known as the Aegean Sea.

From Wikipedia.

Only problem was that, much like the Atlantis story, there was no Athens at the time of Knossos. Athens had a really good p.r. firm, though.

oldarchystudent · Post by **oldarchystudent** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:50 pm

Theseus isn't it? I always get those two confused.

I believe the Athenians co-opted the earlier Mycenean stories of the Minoans. There certainly was contact in that period.