Current Biblical Archaeology

[marduk]

i may be hopeless but my life isn't wasted, look at how much i have learned even here at this site.

you've learned diddly squat
you never will
you're a hopeless case Arch

[Guest]

as a side i thought i would post this little gem for minimalist's benefit who keeps saying there is no historical record found for Jesus.

taken from 'Archaeology and the New Testament' by John McRay, pg. 153-4 (1991)

"Archaeology directly contributes to a complete understanding of few events of Jesus' life and ministry. This is... to be expected regarding a carpenter's son and intinerant teacher with a reputation to perform iracles. We would hardly expect that Jesus captivated the attention of ancient historians. Nevertheless, Josephus refers to him in a Greek text of 'The Antiquities of the Jews'. The authenticity of this Greek text has been widely rejected because of its apparant Christian witness to Jesus' divinity (typical)...Schlomo Pines argues that the same information, without the questionable testimony is found in a tenth century historical work in Arabic, entitled, 'Kitab al-Unwan'. The Arabichistory thus provides independent witness to that of the Greek, and supports the credibility of the historical portions of josephus's references to Jesus...
brief mention of Jesus may also be found in Suetonius's 'Lives of the Ceasars', Tacitus's 'Annals', a history of Greece written about a.d. 52 by Thallus and referred to by Julius Africanus, an epistle of Pliny the Younger (no. 96) to the emperor Trajan, the Jewish Talmud, and the 'Death of Peregrine by Lucian, a second century Greek satirist."

so there are plenty of references available but of course, one can expect the same off hand dismissal by those who refuse to accept that fact. finding any and all excuses for ignoring the truth only hurts those who do the denials.

[marduk]

http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?vid=c ... 9&fr=yvmtf

this guys miracles are at least as impressive as Jesus
i mean dividing fish and loaves what was the point of that
i don't even like cod in breadcrumbs
couldn't he have done cheeseburgers
that would have been miraculous

[Minimalist]

McRae merely repeats the same stupidity about Josephus and the gospels.

He's writing for an audience that eats this stuff up and has no critical ability to see that he is merely repeating bullshit.

Jesus was a compilation of many ancient gods. None of them existed, either.

[Minimalist]

it is inthe book,take itup with the author not me and i am sure you mis-apply the word 'texts' to mean 'stele' which is not a text but a monument but your presentation always does that, leave out a few details in hopes people won't notice.

Seeing as how most of the text material we have from Egypt was either carved on Temple Walls, tomb walls, or stone monuments (including stele) and that we have relatively little in the way of papyrus, I would say you are grasping at straws again, as usual. You posted something which said the Egyptians did not use the name of the pharoah in texts until the 10th century BC and the first inscription I find, from the 13th century, clearly has the name of the pharoah. Just looks like another one of your bible lies.

"THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS.....(unless it is to advance our bullshit story.)

[Frank Harrist]

Damn this is a boring and repetitive thread. I was trying to read it and fell asleep on my stool. It's all been said before.
Marduk says something smartassed. Arch relpies that he is ignoring Marduk because his argument is invalid. Bob says something about the bible being bullshit and arch replies with the same shit he said 50 pages ago. This is getting soooooooooooo old. It's pointless! Get a life people! I include myself in that "people" because I'm sitting here reading this crap. I keep thinking I'm on the wrong page and I've read this post before, but noooooooooo it's just the same crap over and over and over and over and over........................................................................................

[Guest]

Jesus was a compilation of many ancient gods. None of them existed, either

i am sure you will provide proof to back up this claim...

Seeing as how most of the text material we have from Egypt was either carved on Temple Walls, tomb walls, or stone monuments (including stele) and that we have relatively little in the way of papyrus

one example is only an exception to the rule and it is not bearing false witness. take it up with the author of the book and oh wait... i used the lack of records due to the short life of papyrus and i got hooted down--sorry but your excuse is not acceptable.

[Minimalist]

Would you read it if I did?

I haven't noted you being terribly open to any scholarly study of your fables.



Again, you post something which crumbles on the first touch and then get all huffy that someone dared to question you assumptions.

You are a little too thin-skinned for this sort of argument.

[Frank Harrist]

It's still fuckin' boring!

[Guest]

Again, you post something which crumbles on the first touch and then get all huffy that someone dared to question you assumptions.

no, i am not going to let you get away with an excuse you refuse to allow me.

here is what i can find in his chapter on egypt, pg. 69:

"because much of early egypt is deeply buried under the nile mud, it has not been possible to push as far back in time as can be done with Mesopotamia. Most of whatis derived from known about Egypt prior to 3100 b.c. is derived from cemeteries located back from the Nile's yearly inundation."

so if you want the lack of records excused to the lack of longevity of papyrus, then that same request mustbe granted for David's and Solomon's time. there is no room for hypocrisy or double standards here.

[marduk]

"because much of early egypt is deeply buried under the nile mud, it has not been possible to push as far back in time as can be done with Mesopotamia. Most of whatis derived from known about Egypt prior to 3100 b.c. is derived from cemeteries located back from the Nile's yearly inundation."

lolol
good try from Mcrae there
thats got to be a 6.0 for bullshit
the mud that he refers technically is called silt and it preserves things perfectly
the aswan dam has now taken care of the seasonal flooding of the nile so nothing is inaccessible in egypt anymore nor was it ever, people tend not to spend years building things when half the time the water is 6 feet deep around the foundations
and the reason that we know so much about the history of sumer before 3100bce, is because its buried in silt
the reason there isn't much history for egypt before that date is because there wasn't much of a civilisation there at that point

[Minimalist]

I include myself in that "people" because I'm sitting here reading this crap.

Come on, Frank....you know that it's better than working!

[Guest]

you and minimalist need to quote some credible egyptologists to support your point before i will consider your opinions on this matter...well minimalist's anyways.

p.s. spell the name correctly

[Minimalist]

Why? So you can denounce them as bible-haters, too? That's your standard ploy for anything that dares to question your bullshit.


BTW, you should not complain about anyone else's spelling.

[Minimalist]

you and minimalist need to quote some credible egyptologists to support your point before i will consider your opinions on this matter...well minimalist's anyways.

Here is a short list of Royal Inscripitons which put the assertion of your unnamed source to the lie. I suppose he is another desperate bible-thumper, like yourself.

Scarab inscription of Amenhotep III 18th Dynasty

"Nebmara, Son of the Sun, Amenhetp, ruler of the Thebaid of his race, Giver of Life, (and)"

"Amenhetp, Ruler of the Thebaid, Giver of Life, (and) the Great Royal Lady Tii, the living,"

The Semna Stele of Senusret III ( a/k/a Khekuer. later known as Sesostris III) 12th Dynasty

"Southern boundary, made in the year 8, under the majesty of the King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Khekuer, who is given life forever 2 and ever; in order to prevent that any Negro should cross it, by water or 3 by land, with a ship, (or) any herds 4 of "

"Live the King of Upper and Lower Egypt, ..... 2 ..... Sesostris (III), who is given life, stability, satisfaction forever."

Report of a stone gathering expedition, for Senusret I ( a/k/a Kheperkare) Founder 12th Dynasty

One inscription composed in the year 38 of Sesostris I (around 1930 BC) is a typical model of these brief inscriptions:

"I came to the desert to obtain stone for His Majesty the King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Kherperkare' in the year 38, the fourth month of the flood, on the fourth day. I departed in peace during the fourth month of the flood, on the sixth day, with 80 blocks of stone drawn by 1500 and by 1000 men. I reached the Nile pier in the fourth month of the flood on the 20th day."

Ahmose I 15th Dynasty (inscription on an offering table.

"An offering which the king gives (of) 1000 of bread, 1000 of beer, 1000 (of oxen), 1000 of fowl, 1000 of alabaster, 1000 of clothing, 1000 of..., 1000 of cold water, 1000 of milk, 1000 of wine, 1000 of....., 1000 of sweet provisions (which is) given to the King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Khenem-ib-Ra, the son of Ra of his body, Ahmose, son of Neith, living eternally. He is the Osiris, lord of appearances, the lord of action..."

Rameses II 19th Dynasty (The Inscription of Mes which mentions 3 different pharaohs!)

"'As for me, I am the son of Huy, the son of Wernero, [the daughter] of Neshi. A division of property was made [for] Wernero and her brothers and sister [in] the [Great] Court [in the time of <King>] Horemhab. They sent the priest of the litter Iniy, who was an officer of the Great Court, to the Wahyt of Neshi, and a division was made for me and my brothers and sisters; and they made my mother, the citizenness Wernero, administrator for her brothers and sisters.
Then Ta-Kharu, the sister of Wernero, [pleaded together with Wernero(?) before] the Great Court. The Court officer was sent forth, and they caused each of the six heirs to take [cognizance] of his portion.
Now the King Ahmose (I) had [given x arouras of land] as a reward to my father. And further, since King Ahmose (I) this land was held by one (heir) after another until [this day]. Then Huy, my father, and his mother Wernero pleaded [together with their] brothers and sisters before the Great Court and the Court of Memphis ... writing(?). [Then my father(?) Huy] died.
And Neb-nofre, my mother, came to till the portion of Neshi my father, but she was not allowed to till (it). Then she laid a plaint against the administrator Khay,and they [caused them to appear before(?)] the Vizier [in] Heliopolis in the year 14+x of King Ramesses (II). "

Thutmoses IV a/k/a Menkheperure 18th Dynasty (Inscription from his chariot tomb painting.)

"King of kings and ruler of rulers, a sovereign to be boasted of, king of Upper and Lower Egypt, Menkheperure, who has conquered all lands for himself, gleaming-of-diadems, beloved of Amun Re, king of the gods, given life, stability, dominion, whilst his heart is joyful, together with his ka like (that of) Re for ever."

Thutmoses IV a/k/a Menkheperure (Inscription from a scarab.)

"The princes of Naharin bearing their gifts behold ((Menkheperure)(Thutmose IV) as he comes forth from the palace."

Rameses II 19th Dynasty

"Horus: Mighty Bull, Likeness of Diadems, Abiding in Kingship, like Atum; Golden Horus: Mighty Strength, Expelling the Nine Bows; King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Lord of the Two Lands: Usermare-Setepnere; Son of Re, of his Body: Ramses-Meriamon, beloved of Amon-Re, lord of Thebes, and all the gods of Thebes..."

Thutmoses I 18th Dynasty (a/k/a Aakheperkara)

"`Horus Mighty Bull, Beloved of Truth, He of the Two Ladies, Risen (kha) with the fiery serpent, Great of Strength, Horus of Gold, Perfect of Years. He who makes hearts live, He of the Sedge and Bee Aakheperkara Son of Ra [Thutmose] living forever and eternity.'"

Thus, it is fairly safe to say tht 'reputable Egyptologists' would not bother to refute the assertion that Royal Names did not appear in Egyptian texts.
They would not do this for two reasons.

1- It is manifestly untrue...all one has to do is look at the inscriptions.

2- Bible-thumping morons would stick their fingers in their ears, shout Hallelujah over and over, and not listen anyway.