Physical implications of Noah's Flood

Post by **Minimalist** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 5:49 pm

You're certainly on the right track, bandit. Since much of the bible was plagiarized from the tales of older and wiser cultures and certainly Sumeria would be one of those.

ed · Post by ed » Fri Sep 01, 2006 7:13 pm

bandit wrote:Though I have to plead a severe lack of knowledge in this area, I was told or I read it somewhere, a very long time ago, that the flood mentioned in the bible was possibly just a recounting of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers overflowing their respective banks and covering the land that lies between them. Thus giving the impression to the local residents that the world was being inundated.

Whether this is an acceptable theory or not I don't know, but it sounds like it coulda, sorta, maybe have happened.

Sure, local flood, old jewish guy puts his goats on a raft. From his perspective the world is coming to an end. When it is over, he grovels and assumes he has saved.

no biggie.

Post by **Minimalist** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:15 pm

Actually...old Sumerian guy.

http://www.historywiz.com/flood.htm

The Flood Myth:

The Sumerian hero Gilgamesh traveled the world in search of a way to cheat death. On one of his journeys, he came across an old man, Utnapishtim, who told Gilgamesh a story from centuries past. The gods brought a flood that swallowed the earth.

The gods were angry at mankind so they sent a flood to destroy him. The god Ea, warned Utnapishtim and instructed him to build an enormous boat to save himself, his family, and "the seed of all living things." He does so, and the gods brought rain which caused the water to rise for many days. When the rains subsided, the boat landed on a mountain, and Utnapishtim set loose first a dove, then a swallow, and finally a raven, which found land. The god Ishtar, created the rainbow and placed it in the sky, as a reminder to the gods and a pledge to mankind that there would be no more floods.

Essan · Post by **Essan** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:11 am

"40 days and 40 nights" is just a euphmism for "a long time".

The earlier mesopotamian stories suggested the waters receeded after a week. They also describe what sound more like a storm, with emphasis on strong winds and what may be thunder and lightning.

Comparisons with New Orleans may be relevant (IMHO)

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:45 am

Frank Harrist · Post by **Frank Harrist** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:57 am

Doctor X wrote:There is even an earlier story from Sumerian which is very fragmentary.

Oh . . . yeah . . . I am the prat that did the calculations on my underwear whilst eating cheetos--it was in response to another "Young Earth" creationist.

--J.D.

Couldn't find a sheet of paper?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 10:21 am

ed · Post by ed » Sat Sep 02, 2006 10:24 am

Doctor X wrote:. . . would have required me leaning up from the couch . . . and letting go of the beer. . . .

--J.D.

Dammit, you found me.

Post by **Minimalist** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 11:28 am

You can run but you can't hide?

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:32 pm

There is even an earlier story from Sumerian which is very fragmentary.

The Flood story
Segment A

approx. 36 lines missing

1-10. …… sets up ……. "I will …… the perishing of my mankind; for Nintur, I will stop the annihilation of my creatures, and I will return the people from their dwelling grounds. Let them build many cities so that I can refresh myself in their shade. Let them lay the bricks of many cities in pure places, let them establish places of divination in pure places, and when the fire-quenching …… is arranged, the divine rites and exalted powers are perfected and the earth is irrigated, I will establish well-being there."

10-14. After An, Enlil, Enki and Ninursaĝa had fashioned the black-headed people, they also made animals multiply everywhere, and made herds of four-legged animals exist on the plains, as is befitting.
approx. 32 lines missing

Segment B
1-3.
3 lines fragmentary

4-5. "I will oversee their labour. Let …… the builder of the Land, dig a solid foundation."

6-18. After the …… of kingship had descended from heaven, after the exalted crown and throne of kingship had descended from heaven, the divine rites and the exalted powers were perfected, the bricks of the cities were laid in holy places, their names were announced and the …… were distributed. The first of the cities, Eridug, was given to Nudimmud the leader. The second, Bad-tibira, was given to the Mistress. The third, Larag, was given to Pabilsaĝ. The fourth, Zimbir, was given to the hero Utu. The fifth, Šuruppag, was given to Sud. And after the names of these cities had been announced and the …… had been distributed, the river ……, …… was watered, and with the cleansing of the small canals …… were established.
approx. 34 lines missing

Segment C
1-27. ……seat in heaven. …… flood. …… mankind. So he made ……. Then Nintur ……. Holy Inana made a lament for its people. Enki took counsel with himself. An, Enlil, Enki and Ninḫursaĝa made all the gods of heaven and earth take an oath by invoking An and Enlil. In those days Zi-ud-sura the king, the gudug priest, ……. He fashioned ……. The humble, committed, reverent ……. Day by day, standing constantly at ……. Something that was not a dream appeared, conversation ……, …… taking an oath by invoking heaven and earth. In the Ki-ur, the gods …… a wall. Zi-ud-sura, standing at its side, heard: "Side-wall standing at my left side, ……. Side-wall, I will speak words to you; take heed of my words, pay attention to my instructions. A flood will sweep over the …… in all the ……. A decision that the seed of mankind is to be destroyed has been made. The verdict, the word of the divine assembly, cannot be revoked. The order announced by An and Enlil cannot be overturned. Their kingship, their term has been cut off; their heart should be rested about this. Now ……. What ……."
approx. 38 lines missing

Segment D
1-11. All the windstorms and gales arose together, and the flood swept over the ……. After the flood had swept over the land, and waves and windstorms had rocked the huge boat for seven days and seven nights, Utu the sun god came out, illuminating heaven and earth. Zi-ud-sura could drill an opening in the huge boat and the hero Utu entered the huge boat with his rays. Zi-ud-sura the king prostrated himself before Utu. The king sacrificed oxen and offered innumerable sheep.

12-17.
six lines fragmentary
approx. 33 lines missing

Segment E
1-2. "They have made you swear by heaven and earth, ……. An and Enlil have made you swear by heaven and earth, ……."

3-11. More and more animals disembarked onto the earth. Zi-ud-sura the king prostrated himself before An and Enlil. An and Enlil treated Zi-ud-sura kindly ……, they granted him life like a god, they brought down to him eternal life. At that time, because of preserving the animals and the seed of mankind, they settled Zi-ud-sura the king in an overseas country, in the land Dilmun, where the sun rises.

12. "You ……."
approx. 39 lines missing

the characters are called by their sumerian names An, Enlil, Enki Zi-ud-sura etc
it also features some early akkadian names so is a revision of an older tales where the original names were left in because during this period people still used the old names
Nintur is a case in point
she is an early akkadian mother Goddess
her sumerian name is Ninursaĝa
both the names Nintur and Ninursaĝa appear in the text which means that this story can only date from around 2800-2500bce

at least 2000 years before it appears anywhere in Hebrew
and around 500 years before it is reused again in Gilgamesh as a central theme where the flood hero is called purely by his epithet Atrahasis (extra wise)

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 4:57 pm

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 5:04 pm

his full title is

Enlil, lord of all the lands, king of the four quarters

like
Israel
and all the christian countries
you can only have one god who sent the flood of Noah
and Enlil did it first

“What’s in a name? that which we call a rose By any other name would smell as sweet” - William Shakespeare

only in this case its smells of death because having a god whos first act is mass genocide sets a really really bad example for the "faithful"

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:19 pm

Arch, of course, will dispute the date because he believes in creationism and not science

science is only a tool and runmostly by fallible men,some with agendas, i wouldn't put my trust in it.

again such a date leaves out so many parameters and fallibilities, that it is highly doubtful man will ever come up with a correct date.

now, i am not a young earth, 4004 b.c. creationist. i am a creationist but i push the date back further for God's act of creation to about 12,000 years ago approx.

but when the 'beginning' was, i could never venture a guess nor do i receive special revelation to give me a figure. especially since, time was not created before the act of creation thus any date prior to 10,000 b.c. is suspect and not confirmable.

so any readings in the millions of years for rocks, is possible due to the time frame betweenthe 'beginning' and the act of creation.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:21 pm

but i push the date back further for God's act of creation to about 12,000 years ago approx.

hilarious Arch that really is
tell me
does any other cultist on earth share that delusion with you or did you reach that conclusion all on your own

and of course
WHERES THE LINK TO PROVE IT

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:27 pm