Atlatl

[Leona Conner]

Let me see, according to this . . . . . .

things were pretty good, so we got something not as good to make it better, eventually the not so good did get better, so that the first thing that was originally better was now the not good at all, BUT the thing that became the best really turned out to be the worst . . . . .

Ooooooooooooooooooooookay.

How much did a man have to do with it?

[gunny]

Unlike most books and historical documents----The great archer and "apple from his head" William Tell used a CROSSBOW! His statue issustrates in his home town in Switzerland. Legend has him ambushing the one reqireing his shot, and killing him with a crossbow bolt.

[Frank Harrist]

The longbow is a very advanced form of bow. The first bows invented were much shorter and less powerful, but still an improvement over the atlatl, at least in most respects. It did take a little practice. The atlatl is very easily mastered with just a few throws whereas the bow takes a little more skill. Some of the best bows ever made in pre-columbian America were made by my boys the Caddo. They cultivated and used Bois D'arc wood. Translates from French to archery wood.

Anyway, longbows were much later than the weapon which actually replaced the atlatl dart system.

[gunny]

Leona----If it was not for women-----men would still be unwashed, living in caves, and using the atlatl. Heh-----sounds cool to me! Perhaps my M-16 could come along for the nasty carnivores.

[Guest]

The bow and arrow didn't turn up in america until rather late. Much later than in the old world. It was 5 or 6 hundred AD before it was invented here in america. Remember, it was still the stone age here when the first europeans arrived.

[Frank Harrist]

^^^^^^ME^^^^^^^^

[Barracuda]

I found the link on Atlatl hunting in Penn in National Geo.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... _deer.html

There is a series of historical fiction books about an English Longbowman, but I can't remember the authors name. He wrote the Sharpe series of books and his wife is also a historical fiction writer....

[Leona Conner]

Gunny, guess God figured no one should be that happy, so he gave you us to even things out. If you didn't have families to feed, you wouldn't need those bows and arrows and atlatls and spears cause you wouldn't have to kill the big ones. Don't they say that "neccessity is the mother of invention" If so then we must have made you guys invent those thing so you could feed us.

[Minimalist]

Let me see, according to this . . . . . .

things were pretty good, so we got something not as good to make it better, eventually the not so good did get better, so that the first thing that was originally better was now the not good at all, BUT the thing that became the best really turned out to be the worst . . . . .

Ooooooooooooooooooooookay.

How much did a man have to do with it?

Pretty much all of it, I guess.

[stan gilliam]

What about the plain old spear, that you threw like a javelin or
stabbed into a foodsupply or enemy?
Large points are often referred to as spear points.

[Frank Harrist]

What about the plain old spear, that you threw like a javelin or
stabbed into a foodsupply or enemy?
Large points are often referred to as spear points.

After the exctintcion of the mega-fauna, spears became largely ceremonial. Most of the beautifully crafted spear points you see were found as grave goods. They were knapped specifically for that.

[gunny]

What use was the corner tang unit? Many grave goods areas have these unused.

[Guest]

What use was the corner tang unit? Many grave goods areas have these unused.

Corner tangs were knives hafted to a handle. If found in a grave it was probably ceremonial too.

[Rokcet Scientist]

[quote="Frank Harrist"][quote="stan gilliam"]What about the plain old spear, that you threw like a javelin or stabbed into a foodsupply or enemy?
Large points are often referred to as spear points.

[/quote]

After the exctintcion of the mega-fauna, spears became largely ceremonial. Most of the beautifully crafted spear points you see were found as grave goods. They were knapped specifically for that.[/quote]

So, from about 8,000 years ago spears were redundant, you say?

Well, 5.000 years later that 'redundant weapon' was the main heavy armament of the armies of the ancient Egyptians, the Macedonians, the Persians, the Greeks, the Romans, the Phoenicians, etc. etc. etc. All managed to conquer huge empires with them.
Not bad for a weapon that was already redundant for 5,000 years, eh?

[stan]

Yes, but this kind of spear was omitted from the discussion of
the devolution of the atl atl and ascendancy of the bow.

Is that because it was there "all along" and basically remained
unchanged (like the dagger) while the ballistic weapons evolved?

So how do you tell the difference between a "spear point" and an
"atlatl point" stuck into a mammoth fossil?