Or at least the northern portions?
Plains Indian Hand Signs
Moderators: MichelleH, Minimalist, JPeters
Wow!
This deserves it’s own thread!
Roberto, are you saying that you can “see” the ridge go by under you on trans Atlantic trip?
Visually?
I live it the USA mid-west and have heard that the ground here is still “rebounding” from the weight of the ice. But they measure it in fractions on an inch per decade.
But, from what you are saying, the nuke sub guys would have had to sneak through a pass in the mountains the same way early, low altitude, airplanes did.
That reminds me of a scene in the movie Red October that I always thought was pure Hollywood.
My original question was if there was a relationship between the Plains Indian sign language ( Which looks like it should be called the “Western Hemisphere Sign Language”) and the Orgam script that seems to be used throughout the Celt sphere of influence. From Spain, to Ireland, to N A.
This deserves it’s own thread!
Roberto, are you saying that you can “see” the ridge go by under you on trans Atlantic trip?
Visually?
I live it the USA mid-west and have heard that the ground here is still “rebounding” from the weight of the ice. But they measure it in fractions on an inch per decade.
But, from what you are saying, the nuke sub guys would have had to sneak through a pass in the mountains the same way early, low altitude, airplanes did.
That reminds me of a scene in the movie Red October that I always thought was pure Hollywood.
My original question was if there was a relationship between the Plains Indian sign language ( Which looks like it should be called the “Western Hemisphere Sign Language”) and the Orgam script that seems to be used throughout the Celt sphere of influence. From Spain, to Ireland, to N A.
Not today. That picture depicts what the area "may" have looked like during the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM). At that time sea levels were 400 ft. lower than now. In addition, and what I was asking Roberto about, the earth may have been distorted by the weight of the ice bearing down, especially on Greenland. The mid-Atlantic Ridge is a weak faultline in the ocean and it may have buckled upward. With the ice melted the earth would rebound to it's normal position.Roberto, are you saying that you can “see” the ridge go by under you on trans Atlantic trip?
So the Ridge is currently well under water. However the Azores are part of the peaks that are above water today.
I realize that you posed the question to Roberto, but I thought I could be of some help before he checks back in - probably tomorrow. He can answer you better than I.
Disclaimer: I am not saying that this is Atlantis.
NO ... you can't see anything visible today! You would have to be watching the bottom profile, pinging the bottom with seismograph data as your ship comes atop the mid-atlantic ridge. My apologies for not making that clear. It was Friday, the Boss was around, and I was rushing out the door.
I'll search for that info on how deep the mid-atlantic ridge is beneath the surface as we know it today.
I'll search for that info on how deep the mid-atlantic ridge is beneath the surface as we know it today.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-Atlant ... h_to_South
Geology of Mid-Atlantic Ridge
These mountain ranges are tectonic plates which move apart along a divergent boundary as magma rises from the Earth's mantle. Heat from the magma causes the crust on either side of the rifts to expand, forming the ridges.
The ridge actually sits on top of the mid-Atlantic rise which is a progressive bulge that also runs the length of the Atlantic Ocean with the ridge resting on the highest point of this linear bulge. This bulge is thought to be caused by upward convective forces in the asthenosphere pushing the oceanic crust and lithosphere.
This divergent boundary first formed in the Triassic period when a series of three-armed grabens coalesced on the supercontinent Pangaea to form the Ridge. Usually only two arms of any given three-armed graben become part of a divergent plate boundary. The failed arms are called aulacogens and the aulacogens of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge eventually became many of the large river valleys seen along the Americas, and Africa (including the Mississippi River, Amazon River and Niger River).
The ridge is about 2,500 meters below sea level, while its flank is about 5,000 meters deeper.
Islands on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, from North to South
The islands are, from North to South , with their respective highest peaks, elevations in m, and location:
Northern Hemisphere (North Atlantic Ridge):
Jan Mayen (Beerenberg, 2277 m, at 71°06'N, 08°12'W), in the Arctic Ocean
Iceland (Hvannadalshnúkur in the Vatnajökull, 2109.6 m, at 64°01'N, 16°41'W), which the ridge runs through
Azores (Ponta do Pico or Pico Alto, on Pico Island, 2351 m, at 38°28′0″N, 28°24′0″W)
Bermuda (Town Hill, on Main Island, 76 m, at 32°18′N, 64°47′W) (Bermuda was formed on the ridge, but is now considerably west of it)
Saint Peter and Paul Rocks (Southwest Rock, 22.5 m, at 00°55′08″N, 29°20′35″W)
Southern Hemisphere (South Atlantic Ridge):
Ascension Island (The Peak, Green Mountain, 859 m, at 07°59'S, 14°25'W)
Tristan da Cunha (Queen Mary's Peak, 2062 m, at 37°05'S, 12°17'W)
Gough Island (Edinburgh Peak, 909 m, at 40°20'S, 10°00'W)
Bouvet Island (Olavtoppen, 780 m, at 54°24'S, 03°21'E)
So my thoughts are .. that at one time, there existed more lands mass around these islands which are presently existing. Maybe not such a large
mass of land as seen in this picture that you just posted, but still more
land above the water line, along the mid-atlantic ridge. Probably more so at the northern end of the North Mid-Atlantic Ridge. These could have easily been stop points or jumbing off points for early sea travelers in the Atlantic between Europe and North America. Maybe even Atlantis existed along one of these islands near the south end of the Northern Mid-Atlantic Ridge.
The same thing has been pointed out for the southern Pacific around Eastern Island. Not exactly like the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, but islands now submerged. At one time numerous islands where above water in the Pleistocene that could have been used as hopping points across the Pacific with the help of the currents. This helped to break up long distance sea voyages. And we have currents that would have easily moved sea travelers back and forth across the Atlantic also.
And I read in that previous article that sand was found that appeared to be beach sand, sand worn by apprasive water action that could only have occured near the water surface. Not sure where this sample came from that they referred to as "beach sand" thou. Have to go back and reread the article.
As far as subs, I do expect that they take the under water mountain chain of the Mid-Atlantic very seriously.
Geology of Mid-Atlantic Ridge
These mountain ranges are tectonic plates which move apart along a divergent boundary as magma rises from the Earth's mantle. Heat from the magma causes the crust on either side of the rifts to expand, forming the ridges.
The ridge actually sits on top of the mid-Atlantic rise which is a progressive bulge that also runs the length of the Atlantic Ocean with the ridge resting on the highest point of this linear bulge. This bulge is thought to be caused by upward convective forces in the asthenosphere pushing the oceanic crust and lithosphere.
This divergent boundary first formed in the Triassic period when a series of three-armed grabens coalesced on the supercontinent Pangaea to form the Ridge. Usually only two arms of any given three-armed graben become part of a divergent plate boundary. The failed arms are called aulacogens and the aulacogens of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge eventually became many of the large river valleys seen along the Americas, and Africa (including the Mississippi River, Amazon River and Niger River).
The ridge is about 2,500 meters below sea level, while its flank is about 5,000 meters deeper.
Islands on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, from North to South
The islands are, from North to South , with their respective highest peaks, elevations in m, and location:
Northern Hemisphere (North Atlantic Ridge):
Jan Mayen (Beerenberg, 2277 m, at 71°06'N, 08°12'W), in the Arctic Ocean
Iceland (Hvannadalshnúkur in the Vatnajökull, 2109.6 m, at 64°01'N, 16°41'W), which the ridge runs through
Azores (Ponta do Pico or Pico Alto, on Pico Island, 2351 m, at 38°28′0″N, 28°24′0″W)
Bermuda (Town Hill, on Main Island, 76 m, at 32°18′N, 64°47′W) (Bermuda was formed on the ridge, but is now considerably west of it)
Saint Peter and Paul Rocks (Southwest Rock, 22.5 m, at 00°55′08″N, 29°20′35″W)
Southern Hemisphere (South Atlantic Ridge):
Ascension Island (The Peak, Green Mountain, 859 m, at 07°59'S, 14°25'W)
Tristan da Cunha (Queen Mary's Peak, 2062 m, at 37°05'S, 12°17'W)
Gough Island (Edinburgh Peak, 909 m, at 40°20'S, 10°00'W)
Bouvet Island (Olavtoppen, 780 m, at 54°24'S, 03°21'E)
So my thoughts are .. that at one time, there existed more lands mass around these islands which are presently existing. Maybe not such a large
mass of land as seen in this picture that you just posted, but still more
land above the water line, along the mid-atlantic ridge. Probably more so at the northern end of the North Mid-Atlantic Ridge. These could have easily been stop points or jumbing off points for early sea travelers in the Atlantic between Europe and North America. Maybe even Atlantis existed along one of these islands near the south end of the Northern Mid-Atlantic Ridge.
The same thing has been pointed out for the southern Pacific around Eastern Island. Not exactly like the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, but islands now submerged. At one time numerous islands where above water in the Pleistocene that could have been used as hopping points across the Pacific with the help of the currents. This helped to break up long distance sea voyages. And we have currents that would have easily moved sea travelers back and forth across the Atlantic also.
And I read in that previous article that sand was found that appeared to be beach sand, sand worn by apprasive water action that could only have occured near the water surface. Not sure where this sample came from that they referred to as "beach sand" thou. Have to go back and reread the article.
As far as subs, I do expect that they take the under water mountain chain of the Mid-Atlantic very seriously.
Those sub navigators have to be a different breed.
You know, it would be interesting to know what the underwater navigators do know.
There was a publicized example of an American nuke hitting an "uncharted seamount" in the Pacific a few months back.
It only got into the papers because some guys got killed in the impact.
I am sure that if it had only been a few million dollars in damages we would have never known about it.
The U S Navy is letting some of what it knows out to the world. Things like historic seismic activity picked up on their ocean wide listening networks.
But you have to wonder what they aren’t telling us.
You know, it would be interesting to know what the underwater navigators do know.
There was a publicized example of an American nuke hitting an "uncharted seamount" in the Pacific a few months back.
It only got into the papers because some guys got killed in the impact.
I am sure that if it had only been a few million dollars in damages we would have never known about it.
The U S Navy is letting some of what it knows out to the world. Things like historic seismic activity picked up on their ocean wide listening networks.
But you have to wonder what they aren’t telling us.
Now I have to get all embarrassed.
And learn how to turn off the auto correction feature. I think then everything would show up in the spell check and give me a chance to manually it.
When are they going to come up with a spell checker that works on what you meant to say?
(BTW, I would be placed at the Kings right side.)
And learn how to turn off the auto correction feature. I think then everything would show up in the spell check and give me a chance to manually it.
When are they going to come up with a spell checker that works on what you meant to say?
(BTW, I would be placed at the Kings right side.)
There is no protection against a "Freudian slip" KB. We all suffer from that.When are they going to come up with a spell checker that works on what you meant to say?
The Ogham hand signs were used by the ancient Druids I believe. Or at least I've heard that somewhere. After that almost all hand signs would look similar to me. I have no idea if Ogham is related to any form of Native American communication.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogham
Wiki has some info about the language, but this article doesn't describe the sign system they used.
Wiki has some info about the language, but this article doesn't describe the sign system they used.
kbs2244 wrote:But back to the Orgasm hand symbols and the Indian Sign Language:
Is there any connection?
It just seems to be too much of a coincidence for there to be a continent wide unspoken language without a real old common connection of some kind.
OK, one word.
Dialects.
In studies of spoken and written languages, multiple dialects are a fact.
Nothing to say that this morphology is not also true of sign language.
So, is there a connection?
Yes, the same connection which links spoken/written languages. Linguists have spent lifetimes on this, with some success in tracing the rate and geographic spread of linguistic development - rather like tracing the haplogroups of DNA. (Side note - it is most unfortunate that we don't have any linguistic evidence for clovis/pre-clovis groups in terms of the argument for/against marine dispersal). However, I know of no parallel research into sign language as parent language/child dialects, possibly for the simple reason that there is a very limited body of evidence for petroglyphic and/pictoral/sculptural representations of something that only MIGHT be sign language, rather than plain physical representation.
The problem here is, first, when does a physical representation turn into a symbolic representation (cf., the whole cave painting argument),
and, second, when does a symbolic representation turn into language, of any sort?
john
"Man is a marvellous curiosity. When he is at his very, very best he is sort of a low-grade nickel-plated angel; at his worst he is unspeakable, unimaginable; and first and last and all the time he is a sarcasm."
Mark Twain
Mark Twain