Firearms Archaeology
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Whitedog----May I suggest contacting the Alamo museum in San Antonio and describe the weapon, artifact, and history as you know it. They have rich patrons with deep pockets, and should these items be identified as actual Alamo defenders items, high five or six figure offers would probably be made. Hell, Davy Crockett was defending the actual Alamo area you describe. Should it be Davy's rifle ---and verified---retire to Pago Pago with 71 virgins!
Hi Gunny. The letter to me from the family is in Spanish because I asked that they do so because that would eliminate any possible mistakes in trying to convey any informaiton to me. The letter, as translated to me states that the soldiers attacked and took the corner where the cannon stood and that two men who were defending that platform retreated down the ramp into the compound and "fought like cornered wolves" they were wounded though and when the Mexican soldiers or "soldados" opened the main gate from within, the others outside the southern wall rushed in and
the men were soon overwelmed and bayoneted. The ancestor went back after the fighting and found the two men together and picked up the rifle from the body of the tallest man. It's the one that is pictured in the post. Do you know David Webb? He told me that the alamo curator wants to look at the letter and the rifle. David too was wondering if the rifle could have belonged to one of the Tenneseeans or possibly Crockett himself. That would be a stretch though wouldn't it? However, his rifle had to go somewhere. I fired it last thursday with powder and patched ball and it was accurate. The feel of it is something to experience. Tom Lindley and John Hinnant both suggested to me that I donate it to the Alamo Museum, as well as the curator there, but then...I wouldn't have it anymore! It's just sitting in the corner of my livingroom next to my fireplace. I wonder what kind of insurance I should get on it?
the men were soon overwelmed and bayoneted. The ancestor went back after the fighting and found the two men together and picked up the rifle from the body of the tallest man. It's the one that is pictured in the post. Do you know David Webb? He told me that the alamo curator wants to look at the letter and the rifle. David too was wondering if the rifle could have belonged to one of the Tenneseeans or possibly Crockett himself. That would be a stretch though wouldn't it? However, his rifle had to go somewhere. I fired it last thursday with powder and patched ball and it was accurate. The feel of it is something to experience. Tom Lindley and John Hinnant both suggested to me that I donate it to the Alamo Museum, as well as the curator there, but then...I wouldn't have it anymore! It's just sitting in the corner of my livingroom next to my fireplace. I wonder what kind of insurance I should get on it?
Whitedog-----If a diary kept by a mexican officer at the Alamo battle can be believed, Crockett was captured, and ordered bayoneted after the battle by pepperbelly santa anna. Your letter suggests the rifle was picked up from a dead Texan who had used it with some effect. Alamo artifacts are very rare, verified arms are non-existant, please have your items investigated. Should they be judged authentic, several choices are yours; leave it gathering dust next to the fireplace----sell it for mucho dinero to the University of Texas which would put it on display while you jet-set to Monaco====be a nice guy and give it to the Alamo museum. Or-----load up the old smokepole and harvest one of the fat Missouri whitetails. Keep us informed as to your decision.
Latest news on the Crockett letter written in Nacogdoches, Texas by Mr. Crockett on his way to the Alamo which U.T.-Austin paid $600,000 is maybe fake. It was well known, during his time in Congress, that he was almost illiterate and had pages write for him. The current letter has impeccable spelling which obviously he did not do. A learned person in Nacogdoches could have written it for him, but not in his hand writing.----$600,000 would buy the beer for at least a week.
Gunny, I haven't any money to hire anyone to investigate anything. However, I've known the two pople from whom I received the rifle for 24 years. The letter from the woman in Mexico (Alondra), verifies to me that what they said about the rifle was true. Frank and Gail never suspected and possibly didn't care about it's connection with the War for Texas Independence. The rifle seems to be one of Henry Leman's very first rifles that he started making in 1834 at the age of 22. (his name is stamped on the barrel top flat.) It's furniture is like that of J. Fordney's rifles who young Leman was apprenticed to until 1833. The trigger guard, sideplate, butt plate, and patch box all have the letter J stamped into their under sides, indicating that they were originaly put on this rifle and not salvaged off of others. Lemans later rifles have certain features that indicate a pattern that he eventually settled on. This rifle had artificial striping originaly like all Leman rifles, and though it had been worn down, was still apparent around the butt. Young Leman must have made this longrifle very early in his carrer. It makes sense that the rifle would have been bought by someone who was on his way to Texas. There were literaly thousands and thousands of men and families who wanted to take advantage of the new land there. Oddly, if this rifle hadn't been picked up and taken away, it would've been just another bit of scrap metal under the ground somewhere. I'm not in any hurry to get rid of it. I sold it ten years ago for $1,700.00 and had to pay $2,400.00 to get it back. I like to mess around with it allmost every night. I've even held it across my lap while watching John Wayne's The Alamo... several times.Not having a family to leave it to, I've several buddies who have each told me they're going to kick my door open and take it if I die before my time. None of these are interested in history or Texas. What a shame. I enjoy having it for it's historical association as I consider the siege of the Alamo the high water mark in courage and patriotism of America. It's facinating to think about the things this rifle must have been witness to.
Contact ---Bruce Winders--curator of the Alamo Museum at 210.225.1391---he is expecting your call-- his concerns, as expected, are verification. He asked if the family you bought it from had a period letter from the relative descibing the Alamo pick up? Without something like that, it is just a nice old rifle. Call him.
I didn't buy the rifle from them. If you check out my earlier posting about this rifle, the couple who gave it to me got it along with some other antiques 45 years ago all for $60.00. THe husband of the couple gave it to me to look at and eventually just let me keep it. I don't know what type of provenance there is dating from the original ancestor's time. It might have been mentioned along with other items of discussion within their family and friends, but if any letters were written by him then, I know nothing of them or to whom he would have written, The mans last name is not even recalled by the old woman in Mexico becuase of the several times an ancestral daughter maried and lost her maiden name. One of the uncles of the lady is said to have the names of their family line going back some ways, but their family tree may not be accurately documented past a certain distance. Maybe not enough interest in fthe family tree there. much oral history and some names might have ben recorded within a family bible, (did 18th & 19th century Catholics have family bibles in Mexico?)I'm not interested in getting rid of it and so I'm not bothered with the lack of detailed provenance, Not being an historian, I'm just kind of satisfied with an interesting account that was shared with me by the Mexican family and the couple from whom I recieved it. They gave it to me and so I've nothing in it except for what it cost me to buy it back from the son of the ex cop who bought it from me years ago. I'm not going to push the Alamo link as if it's a fact beyond any doubt. I'll continue to search for and retain any and all information that I can obtain on it of course, but I don't have a reason to lock it in for my own satisfaction. I like what I've been told and what I've found out about it. Except for a chance discovery in an old shed, it would still be in there or in a dump in Mexico. I have it now and I'm satisfied with it as a pretty cool Pennsylvania longrifle. There should of course be every effort made to gather all information remaining about it from the memory of the family or any documentation that's forthcoming. But I'm not going to loose any sleep over it. I enjoy holding it and firing it. I feel good about it and will give it to my kid if and when I have one when I get hitched to my gal next year. The rifle has been saved from obscurity. It roared to life in my hands and it's accurate. Better it's posessed by me than by a guy who would use it for a door stop in a shed. 
Last edited by whitedog on Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.