DISEASE BROUGHT BY WHITES

[john]

All -

It is Thanksgiving; something I have a connection to.

One of my relatives, on my Mother's side,

Was one Alexander Whitaker, a preacher,

Who came to America in the early 1600's.

And was tangled up in the various Pocahontas legends.

History says he converted her to Christianity.

Not to sound too depressing,

But Jamestown introduced one of the first waves

Of European diseases

On the East coast of America.

So I regard Thanksgiving with caution

Bordering on despair,

Given subsequent events.


hoka hey

john

[Minimalist]

There was a Spanish soldier who wrote a journal of a journey down the Amazon in which he outlined numerous cities and towns. I can't recall his name but he was dismissed as a crackpot by Spanish authorities.

Maybe he was right?

[E.P. Grondine]

Dorset culture pretty much disappears about the time the Vikings made contact, so you could put that one at near 100%.

In 8,350 BCE there is a great reduction in population in Eastern North America, as evidenced by quarry abandonment. This is followed by Dalton maritime archaic points (white with serated edges), and most likely is tied to the introduction of European disease vectors by the Red Paint people (Canadian maritime archaic). Again, the death rate was probably 90-100%.

[gunny]

HE DID NOT SAY MUSLIMS in early AMERICA---Concerned they would introduce hybrid things into America with results to be worse than atomic.

[E.P. Grondine]

HE DID NOT SAY MUSLIMS in early AMERICA---Concerned they would introduce hybrid things into America with results to be worse than atomic.

Pretty clearly neither you nor your university professor did not mean to say Muslims, but rather Islamic fundamentalist terrorists. That single malt will get you.

The CDC also has done some limited work on the plagues that hit Native American populations. By the way, I don't know if it's proper to mention this here, but I cover several of those plagues (ca 1175 CE, mention of DeSoto's, and 1576 CE) to a limited extent my book "Man and Impact in the Americas", available through Amazon.com or from me directly at Pow Wows.

(Hundreds of pages of too small type filled with typos and not enough pictures, in which the author tries to demonstrate the simply unbelievable hypothesis that comet and asteroid impact events killed large numbers of people living in the Americas.)

Merry Christmas

[Minimalist]

the simply unbelievable hypothesis that comet and asteroid impact events killed large numbers of people living in the Americas.

Surely you are not referring to Firestone's theory, there?

[E.P. Grondine]

Surely you are not referring to Firestone's theory, there?

No. Actually, Minimalist, V-2 rocket engineer Otto Muck was the first to hypothesize a holocene start impact.

Dr. Firestone had a bump and spike to explain in the RC14 calibration curve, and he came up with his own injection mechanism for the comet to explain that curve. From 14C and 10Be data, it appears that neutrons and protons are released in large impacts, which explains the spike in the INCAL98 calibration curve. Other 14C spikes can be tied to geologically dated impacts, for example Barringer Crater ca. 44,000 BCE; another to the mammoth peppering iron impact in Alaska; and yet another to a large iron impact in Siberia.

My own observations on the hypothesized holocene start impact were circulated to the impact community back in 2000 by the Cambridge Conference, and I was unaware of Firestone's work as well as Kenneth's later survey when I wrote my book in 2004.

Benny Peiser, the editor of the Cambridge Conference took it over entirely to global warming scepticism in January, 2004; I had a stroke in April, 2005, after completing the manuscript for "Man and Impact in the Americas; the first I learned of Kenneth's survey of holocene start sites was when it was broadcast on television.

While Firestone's injection mechanism is hypothetical, there is no doubt that a comet hit at the beginning of the Holocene. There's a one inch layer of cometary impactites near Sandusky, complete with the remains of blast killed megafauna, and stone tools. That's rock hard data; from quarry usage, it appears that 95% of the peoples living in North America died then. I hope that someone will post a pointer to the Sandusky newspaper story to archaeology in the news.

In my book (2004) I gave the Mohawk, Tuscarora, and Lenape traditions (proto-historical accounts) of that impact. When I did my book, all I had was the population die off at 8,350 BCE, and that was the date that I mistakenly used for the impacts they remembered. We now can reasonably tie the population die off at 8,350 BCE to the introduction of European disease vectors by the Red Paint people.

Since my book was completed, I have also recovered the Shawnee tradition of those impacts.

Long story short, Minimalist, it was my own work in passing on the traditions that I was referring to. What Tankersley has uncovered is strata showing beyond doubt that a comet hit in 10,900 BCE; whether Dr. Firestone's injection mechanism holds up is another separate question.

[Minimalist]

Okay, good.

What's the name of your book, again?

[E.P. Grondine]

Okay, good.

What's the name of your book, again?

"Man and Impact in the Americas". You can read it free through inter-library loan as I gifted copies to major depository libraries.

If you do want to own a copy, by far the best way to get a personally signed copy is by contacting me either via e-mail or by a PM here. It's far less expensive than amazon, and signing them is the best part. In as much as the impact events allowed me to place the traditions accurately in time and space, and thus write the first reliable proto-history of the first peoples in Eastern North America, I am pretty sure that the book will do well with time. Thus, whoever buys a personally signed first edition...

Since my stroke, it would really be nice if a major publisher were to pick the book up, one with copy editors, graphics people, production people, and distribution.

PS - It would also be nice if someone there at archaeologica posted a link to the article on Tankersley's excavation to archaeology in the news guide.

[Minimalist]

I did a quick search on Google and came up with 138 hits for "Ken Tankersley excavation. With this one,

http://www.ourstrangeworld.net/index.ph ... n_history/

being the most recent.

Is that what you mean?

[kbs2244]

This is great!
E.P. could you give us some idea of your background?
No offense, but I have never heard of you.
(There are 1000’s of others.)
I just ordered you book through my local library.

What I really like is the way you can blow holes in the “sacred” carbon 14 dating procedure.
It just is not what it is proposed to be.

[E.P. Grondine]

I did a quick search on Google and came up with 138 hits for "Ken Tankersley excavation. With this one,

http://www.ourstrangeworld.net/index.ph ... n_history/

being the most recent.

Is that what you mean?

Yes, but the link I posted here on the bbs was to a recent Sandusky area newspaper article.

If you google google news on "comet clovis", then sort by date, you should bump right into that article. Or more simply just use the URL I posted here.

[Minimalist]

Here he is in Science Daily. Does this one suit you. I can't add things to the News Page but I can post this in a thread of its own with a "sticky" so it stays on top for a while.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 160950.htm


Science Daily is nice because it cross-references to other articles on similar subjects.

[E.P. Grondine]

Here he is in Science Daily. Does this one suit you. I can't add things to the News Page but I can post this in a thread of its own with a "sticky" so it stays on top for a while.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 160950.htm


Science Daily is nice because it cross-references to other articles on similar subjects.

You could add that URL to the local newspaper article that I already posted and then sticky both. But...

While you know this now, the number of people who drop in here at this bbs is very small compared to the number of eyes that hit the News Page. As a matter of fact, I think you'll find that it is difficult for many people to accept that recent impact events have occurred.

[E.P. Grondine]

This is great!
E.P. could you give us some idea of your background?
No offense, but I have never heard of you.
(There are 1000’s of others.)
I just ordered you book through my local library.

What I really like is the way you can blow holes in the “sacred” carbon 14 dating procedure. It just is not what it is proposed to be.

Don't put words into my mouth, kbs2244.

Actually, 14C is pretty accurate now, due in part to the work of the tree ring experts, and also to Dr. Firestone, who got involved with impact events while working with 14C calibration curves.

My background? I had a life long interest in the "Minoans", and had been fascinated by archaeology from age 8. My primary interest was the Bronze Age Aegean and Linear A. While I always visited Native American sites during those years, I had no idea why.

I was trained as a mathematical economist, did programming work on one of the first text retrieval systems, then wrote on the Soviet and then the Russian space program from 1985; I broke the story of China's new manned space effort.

I stumbled into the work of Clube and Napier on recent cometary impacts in 1987 while writing a short op ed piece. From 1987 to 2003 I wrote for the Cambridge Conference, helping to build that from 80 readers to 800 readers. The Congress also passed the George Brown Jr. Amendment instructing NASA to handle this problem, whose instructions the current NASA Administrator ignored. His departure will be announced around January 14-16, if the current reports are accurate.

I initially planned for 3 books, "Man and Impact in the Americas, "Man and Impact in the Ancient Near East", and "Man and Impact in Europe". But immediately after I finished the draft for "Man and Impact in the Americas" I was hit by a stroke, followed by more evil than any person should have to deal with.

Since my stroke, the only piece that I have been able to put together is a guide inside today's lunatic archaeology industry, which I initially typed with one finger. If you PM me at this bbs here with your e-mail address, I'll send you a draft copy of that in Microsoft Word. It is an amazing story.

I am very tired, and the only reason I can write this reply is that I am housebound right now by ice. I hit the sidewalk twice today trying to walk one block.

PUBLICLY ACCESSIBLE WORKS BY E.P. GRONDINE:

OS1 Lunar
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/os1lunar.htm

POLYUS
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/polyus.htm

MIR 2
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/miralyut.htm

CHINESE MANNED SPACE PROGRAM: BEHIND CLOSED DOORS
http://www.astronautix.com/articles/chidoors.htm
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/tsie1978.htm

LUNAR VARIANT KLIPER
http://www.astronautix.com/gallery/ckliper.htm

CHINA'S MOON PROJECT:
http://www.friends-partners.org/piperma ... 19800.html

CAMBRIDGE CONFERENCE, 1998 - 2003
MAJOR HISTORICAL WORKS

2000
Everything is Connected:
A survey of Man and impact in SE North America
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/ce090400.html

2001
Going Into the Water:
A survey of Man and impact
in the Eastern North American coastal zone and Caribbean
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/ce010702.html

2002
Impact And The End Of The Roman Empire In The West
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/ce082202.html

SHORTER HISTORICAL ESSAYS AND NOTES
1997
Benny Peiser's initial catalogue of Holocene impacts
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc052898.html

1998-2002
On the Joshua impact event
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc032098.html
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc032598.html
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc033098.html
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc012102.html
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc021202.html

1998
On the destruction of the Etruscan city of Volsinii by impact
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc043098.html

On the effects of blast waves
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc071098.html

An Impact Event Recorded In Ainu Folklore
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc102898.html

1999
The Song Of Ullikummi, a Hurrian account of the Tel Leilan impact
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc012099.html

Note on Karen Reiter's "Die Metalle im Alten Orient":
An Essential Reference For Historical Work On Impact Events
abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc020999.html

Catalogue of Known and Suspected Historical impacts
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc031500.html

2000
Short note on sub-Roman impacts
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc042600.html

Updated Catalogue of Known and Suspected Historical impacts
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc070202.html

2001
Legends of a major South American impact
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc032601.html

Comparison of work done at Tunguska, Barringer Crater, and Rio Cuarto
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc082301.html

2002
Worknotes On Man In The Ancient Near East And Impact Events
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc041702.html

Background On The Kaali Lake Impact Event
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc062402.html

2003
The Egyptian Book of the Celestial Cow
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/ce102103.html

REPORTAGE, 1997-2003
1997
On JPL's failure to mention impact craters on Mars
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc111497.html

1998
Review of "Deep Impact"
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc042098.html

Coverage of House Space Subcommittee hearing on NASA and the NEO hazard
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc052898.html

Miscellaneous items, including report on first US NEO defense system
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc061198.html

Don Yeoman's presentation at a Congressional luncheon
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc062298.html

Eleanor Helin named to Technology Hall of Fame
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc062698.html

On the establishment of NASA's NEO office
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc050598.html

Interview with Wesley Huntress
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc050898.html

On NASA Administrator Dan Goldin's strategic plan for NASA and his
views on dealing with the NEO hazard
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc091598.html

On the Space Frontier Foundation's views on the NEO hazard
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc100798.html

The Deep Space 1 Briefing,
and beginning of Newt Gingrich's attack on ISS
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc100198.htm

More on Newt Gingrich's attack
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc100298.html

Short interview with NASA Administrator Dan Goldin on the NEO hazard
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc100898.html

The NEAR Briefing, and a Short Chat With Don Yeomans
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc122198.html

1999
The Problem Of Back Contamination From An Operational Perspective:
An interview with John Rummel
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc011199.html

On the Space Frontier Foundation Forming the "Watch" Committee
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc011399.html

Budget for NASA NEO office
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc020499.html

On Russian work on the back contamination problem
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc011199.html

Interview with John Rummel of NASA's Planetary Protection Office
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc021299.html

ASTEROIDS, COMETS, METEORS & LOST LUGGAGE:
COVERAGE OF THE 1999 ASTEROIDS, COMETS, AND METEORS CONFERENCE
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/ccemenu.html

2000
REPORT FROM THE AMERICAN ASTRONAUTICAL SOCIETY'S
38th GODDARD MEMORIAL SYMPOSIUM
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc040400.html

On oil deposits and impact
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc060600.html

Interview with Colin Hicks on government response to
the UK NEO Taskforce report
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc111600.html

2001
An improved English translation of
THE RUSSIAN POSITION PAPER ON PLANETARY DEFENSE
by Anatoly V. Zaitsev
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc020701.html

Press Conference on Becker Team's development of test for impact
fullerenes (and the loss of my Mercedes Benz)
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc031301.html

First interview with Ed Weiler
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc050201.html

Viking At 25: Report On The Symposium On Mars Exploration
With important observations on public support for manned Mars flight,
And interviews with James Garvin and Mike Malin
on the state of Martian crater counts
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc072101.html

Interview with Colin Hicks
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc111301.html

2002
Dazed And Confused:
In Search Of Us Policies For Dealing With The Impact Hazard
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/ce021102.html

SLI downselect and interview with Ed Weiler
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc050702.html

CONTOUR briefing
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc061702.html

On interplanetary blast waves from Shoemaker Levy 9 impact
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc092602.html

Workshop for Mitigating the Effects of Public Concern on the NASA
Bureaucracy: Two Days in Washington, 2002
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/ce091702.html

The NASA Bureaucrats' New Efforts To Try And Sandbag The Neo Problem
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc100102.html

Report on Congressional hearing on the NEO hazard
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc100802.html

2003
On the Challenger O-Ring failure
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc020503.html

COMMENTARY, 1998-2002
1998
On relations between the MPC and NASA
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc040898.html

On relations between the MPC and NASA
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc061598.html

On the Washington Post's coverage of the NEO hazard
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc042298.html

2000
On JPL's estimates of the impact hazard
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc011700.html

On General Pete Worden's proposals
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc020800.html

Need for funding of historical research
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc032000.html

On the UK NEO Taskforce report
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc092600.html

2001
Suggestion to use video-conferencing
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc031201.html

2002
On the Australian Governments refusal to fund a NEO observatory
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc032502.html

Call for more money for historical impact search
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc051402.html

SATIRE, 1998-2002
1998
"Armageddon" versus "Deep Impact"
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc070698.html

Dale Carnegie Method versus Scientific Method
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc072198.html

2000
On the effects of Pissing on the Sphinx
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc012600.html

Live From The House Of Commons
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc092100.html

2001
Clarification Of The Government's Response, For Speakers
Of English As A Second Language
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc022601.html

2002
Human Sacrifice as an
An Extremely Low Cost Approach To Dealing With The Neo Hazard
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc011502.html

My Campaign to be Elected Chairman of the IAU NEO Working Group
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc071802.html

Really Big News: Comet Shoemaker-Levy 9 Hits Jupiter
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc112602.html