Colunbus

[Digit]

Besides... I HATE winter! Give me global warming ANYTIME!

I'm with you Boo-Boo!

However ... unchecked population expansion, poisoning our environment, needlessly destroying habitats thereby causing extinctions, and a list of other ills (such as missing nuclear material) are real and very dangerous.

and with that as well!

Forget the tea Cogs, coffee all round!

Roy.

[kbs2244]

RE:
Sub photos.
Yes.
Exact same location.

90 N, 0 e/w
The North pole.
(Or as close as pre GPS navigation would get you.)

The point is Artic warming isn't a very new thing.
The Polar bears didn't go extinct due to drowning in 1957.
And if the international shipping trade was worth what it is today they could have used the Artic Route in 1957.

"Aint nothing new under the sun"
"And the beat goes on."

[Digit]

Both the Northwest and Northeast Passage were known to trader/hunters etc previous to the 'Little Ice age' apparently.
The fact that so many navigators attempted the routes from the 15C onwards would suggest that, like Columbus, they knew before setting out what they were looking for.
Should tell us something.
In modern times the first NW transit was early 20C, then apparently it closed again.
An interesting side line to this ic Canada's Oooops!
So devoted were the government to GW they ran down their ice breaker fleet. They have had to hire Russian? ice breakers!
Sweden has also pulled a breaker back from research in antarctica for use in the Baltic.

Roy.

[Minimalist]

To give humankind the credit for altering the earth's natural cycle to the point of runaway global warming is too self serving.

And yet the Industrial Revolution only goes back to the 1800's

Here's a chart of world population growth since 1800.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World ... 0-2100.png

Something happened around 1950 to set off a population boom as things were fairly flat until then. But I don't think you can simply ignore the effect that 7 times as many people have on the environment by saying "it's all the sun's fault." Humanity has a piece of it, if only for the fact that we are clearing more land for people to live on and not even considering that they have to be fed and their waste has to go somewhere.

[Digit]

But I don't think you can simply ignore the effect that 7 times as many people have on the environment by saying "it's all the sun's fault."

I'm not. But environmental degredation from human activities as opposed to climate change is not the same thing Min.
I've just read a report by the WWF on Britain producing 80% of its electricty from renewables by 2030. The report states that is was commissioned by the WWF, if you investigate it was written by WWF employees, reviewed by WWF employees and those questioned or commenting are all in the business of flogging renewables in theory or practise.
That's the sort of thing that makes me suspicious.
Page 21 is headed as dealing with peak demand, then ignores how to deal with it. It also suggests making it financially worthwhile for people to recharge their electric cars at night.
Great idea! If you haven't got a flat battery of course, and currently the number of battery cars in the UK is in the hundreds.
I also read a report earlier about the running costs of electric cars, much cheaper in the UK then fossil fueled ones, provided the electricity is generated from natural gas!
Give me strength.

Roy.

[circumspice]

To give humankind the credit for altering the earth's natural cycle to the point of runaway global warming is too self serving.

And yet the Industrial Revolution only goes back to the 1800's

Here's a chart of world population growth since 1800.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World ... 0-2100.png

Something happened around 1950 to set off a population boom as things were fairly flat until then. But I don't think you can simply ignore the effect that 7 times as many people have on the environment by saying "it's all the sun's fault." Humanity has a piece of it, if only for the fact that we are clearing more land for people to live on and not even considering that they have to be fed and their waste has to go somewhere.

I don't think anything in particular happened around 1950... According to the chart, 1950 or thereabouts is when the human population went from an estimate to something that resembles an actual census count.

[E.P. Grondine]

The Russian arctic was also open for navigation during earlier times.

But now do any of you look at the difference in CO2 absorption of woods versus croplands, translate this number into croplands, and then into population?

No.

Can I do that math myself anymore?

No.

[E.P. Grondine]

By the way, I was about to point out that Colunbus was spelled wrong, but instead I'd just like to recommend to everyone here "Codex 632" by Jose Rodrigues Dos Santos, in qhich he argues that our man was Christovam Guerra Colonna of CUBA, Portugal; of Italian and Jewish extraction, and involved in with the Templars' successors in Portugal.

The book definitely added a few like to see spots in Portugal, should the Great Atlantic Mega-Tsunami ever get me there.

"It was supposed to be like The Da Vinci Code, but in fact it's better and more interesting, as it presents its readers with more proof than speculation. The historical part of the novel is amazing and accessible. Impressive." - Journal do Brasil